| abstract
| - He's associated with light, he's the greatest of the Creator(s)'s servants, he betrayed his master(s)...about the only difference is that the Unconquered Sun won.
* This may shed new light on why the Solar Exalted were so quick to fall from grace themselves...it's In the Blood, you see.
* The Great Curse was canonically caused by the Neverborn. That would explain why Hunters are all insane, though, if they're the new Solars.
* It's mentioned in Demon: the Fallen that Lucifer actually was able to rule for a time before God did an smackdown and things went back to being crap. Why is this important? The original idea (now dropped) for Exalted was that it was the precursor to the Old World of Darkness.
* Note that the newer idea rumors Exalted to be a precursor to the real world, so maybe Sol was our Lucifer.
* Incidentally this also means that God is a chthuloid monster.
* Unless the Yozis and the Neverborn actually being the Primordials before their defeat was just propaganda on the part of the gods, who would have a vested interest in demonizing their predecessors. Also, the Yozis only became Eldritch Abominations after being beaten; the whole multiple souls thing was an expression of their transcendence and general superiority, not incomprehensible monstrosity. Gaia is technically a Primordial, yet is 'normal' enough to still be worshipped by non-Immaculate mainstream humanity.
* Jossed by Glories of the Most High: the Unconquered Sun was specifically created by the Primordials to embody virtue. (This was deemed a necessity by them as the Ebon Dragon's concept required something to rebel against, as his shadow needed a light to cast it.)
* This Josses it how?
* Traditionally, Lucifer is created by God who embodies good and virtue. Unconquered Sun's creation is the exact opposite - he was created by an entity that embodies evil and malevolence(the Dragon's Shadow AKA Ebon Dragon). So, Lucifer=Unconquered Sun theory only holds water in very specific conditions. Also, Ebon Dragon is neither omnipotent, nor omniscient and not even omnipresent. He's also not the only creator nor even the greatest of them. So it would have to be a very alternate universe indeed.
* The Ebon Dragon didn't create the Unconquered Sun. He got the Empyreal Chaos to do it.
* Empyreal Chaos made the Daystar, the Ebon Dragon made the Unconquered Sun.
* You're assuming, of course, that Judeo-Christian ideas of God and the history of the universe are infallibly accurate. In a White Wolf production, this is a very dangerous position to take.
* Alternatively, and taking a page from Gnosticism, the Unconquered Sun is Jesus and That-Which-Became-Malfeas was the Demiurge.
* This was actually canon for a long time, though in a circuitous route. In Hunter: The Reckoning, you find out that the Messengers have come to earth before and empowered mortals (the book makes it fairly clear that the Hunters are a new take on the Solars). You then find out, in Time of Judgment, that the Messengers are actually 1 Messenger: Lucifer, and this is not the first time he's tried this. Basically, until they moved the canon away from the World of Darkness, yes, the Unconquered Sun was Lucifer.
* So in Demon and Hunter, God Is Evil and Satan Is Good, and The Bible's just wrong? That would mean that "God" in D:F is actually all the Primordials, not just one entity. It also doesn't work with the "Cain is an Abyssal, God is Sol" theory. The "God" in Vampire would have to be different from the "God" in Demon and H:tR. And if Lucifer is Sol what does that make the oWoD angels and demons? Angels = the devas and demons of Exalted, and oWoD demons = those who left their Yozis to become minor gods? It also begs the question why Sol Invictus would ask his new Chosen to kill all the Chosen of Luna and the Maidens, aka shapeshifters and mages.
* It never mashed up perfectly, but that WAS the answer for a while.
* Actually, it does not imply God Is Evil and Satan Is Good, as that would imply the Sun is Good. While later fluff trends in this direction, earlier fluff made the morality of what the Incarna did very blurry. Second, God does not have to be different from Vampire to Demon, just a different interpretation. Or, as one of the Hunter supplements indicated, God is another entity entirely and, eventually (another demon supplement backs this up) got pissed off at what happened, moved against the Sun, and finally set up Hell. Basically, the Demons in Dt F would be... gods. It was all very messy, but kind of fun to try to make sense of.
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