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| - Big contradiction here. Now Ray and Kirk are telling us that we cannot trust our own hearts and compass. This coming from the guys who repeatably ask us to look to our conscience and "open our hearts" to discover God, whether Hell is real or not, whether the laws are just or not, and so on. But now they admit that the human heart is "wickedly deceived." So based on this, how can we trust it and our emotions for anything? This basically throws Ray's and Kirk's arguments out the window. If all we have to go by is a book written by man that tells us that some unproven super figure is morally perfect, this is not better than accepting the judgments of the Koran, Dianetics, Vedas, etc. And why should we accept the judgments of a mind of a deity - an outsider - to better able to judge human actions than the minds of humans themselves? Has God every been thirsty? The human mind and human actions are part of the natural world; the mind of god is not. Human minds interact with each other in the real world. A human mind feels physical pain. The human mind can know sorrow, grief, regret and embarrassment, while the mind of a perfect deity cannot. Can god shed a tear, smell a flower or hug a child? Which mind is in better position to make judgments about human actions and feelings? Which mind has more credibility? Which has more experience in the real world? Which mind has more right? Some Christians would point to Jesus, when God became flesh, but what they miss is Jesus saying "think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." The law, according to the Bible, originated in the mind of God long before he stuck his toe into our world.
- What Ray and Kirk are doing is not using the Commandments because the Bible instructs them to, they are con artists who developed their own little schemes to turn people to match their worldview through fear, gullibility, and trickery. Proof: there is no Commandment against lying, stealing is not always bad in the eyes of God or Jesus , and saying "OMG" is not blasphemy or taking God's name in vain.
- At least Kirk and Ray admit that homosexuality is not a choice . Here is something that either Ray and Kirk do not know or deliberately keep from revealing to the audience: the concept of Original Sin is not in the Bible.
- Most likely this email is simply a fake. With Ray, Kirk, and Way of the Master's track record of repeatably and shamelessly lying, as well as this email having no valid information and the contents being blurred, it cannot be fully trusted. It may have been a clever construction of a Way of the Master member or a similar Christian homophobe.
- There is no love in this deceitful con Ray and Kirk has going on here. Where is the message of love in their message? That there is an invisible man in the sky who will torture you forever if you do not follow all his rules? What "love" has God shown us? Besides all the natural disasters, diseases, famines, etc. anyone who reads the Bible can clearly see God is completely void of love. He drowned the entire population of the planet, saving one family. He sent a plague to kill all the first-born children of Egypt, human and animal. He rained fire and brimstone on Sodom, killing everyone—boys, girls, babies, pregnant women, animals. He sent his Israelite warriors to destroy the neighboring pagan tribes—men, women and children. Where is the justice in killing so many inocent with the guilty?? Fortunately there is no reason to believe a tyrannical God with this twisted concept of justice exists.
In I Samuel 6, the ark of the Lord was being transported across country and five farmers of Bethshemesh “rejoiced to see it.” They opened the box and made a burnt offering to the Lord, and for this terrible sin God “smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with great slaughter.” Is it moral to kill 50,000 people for a petty offense? And exactly what was the crime? These men were trying to worship this very god, in their own way. Wouldn’t a God of mercy understand their innocent mistake? What if one of your children gave you a birthday card with the words “Daddy/Mommy, I luv you” and you punish them for spelling the word wrong?
- This verse describes clearly how God himself made people homosexual. This passage could also be a reference to idol worship and prostitution, due to the context of the preceding passages.
- We will save you the trouble. Click the episode program below or click here: True and False Conversion (Way of the Master) and see why this program is full of poor and flawed arguments.
- And, surprise surprise, they are right.
- Both Ray and the man were mistaken about the Commandment Thou Shall Not Take Thy Lord's Name in Vain. It is not saying "God dammit" or "OMG" it is making a false oath or promise under Yahweh's name. Cussing with the word "God" is not God's name, its his title. One thing is clearly evident, the man being interviewed is a more moral person than Ray Comfort. The man is no deliberately lying and trying to deceive as many people as possible to follow a false and irrational belief.
And yes, there is more than 10 Commandments - in fact, there are 613 total...and Ray has broken practically all of them. Regarding whether God is x,y,z, take note of Ray's responds "Do you know that?" The man was claiming God is all-loving and all-knowing, and people for centuries have found biblical evidences to support it, just as other Christians found verses to say God is not all that. Ray's response "do you Know that?" well Ray, how do you know God is holy and just? Right, you look to the Bible for support. So when you do something like use the Bible as reference, criticizing other Christians for doing the same makes you a hypocrite.
Finally, is this man taking a big risk? No. Without any evidence of a soul or afterlife, there is not much a thing to worry about.
- Sometimes what feels right is the answer, but this is not always so. So how do we determine what is right or wrong. Ray and Kirk's answer is the wrong answer. Society determines what is right and wrong based on what is harmful or beneficial to society.
If morality means anything, it means that we are accountable to others. Christians believe that we are accountable not to people, but to God. Since God is nonexistent, then Christians are accountable to no one. Even if a god does exist, they are in practice not directly accountable to anyone in the real world, which amounts to the same thing. Since bible believers are accountable to God and not to humanity, they can ask for forgiveness from God for any crimes they commit against humanity. In other words, they can act with impunity. And they often do.
- In the Hebrew context of this phrase, "abomination" is not something dirty, wicked, sinful, or filthy. Rather the word means something that was not commonly practiced, it was an unusual act. Some people have suggested what is condemned in this verse is pagan rituals, which involved homosexual acts. This fits in with the context of the verse, as Leviticus 18:27-28 specifically says that the pagans defiled the land with such acts.
- What more do you need?
- At least Ray and Kirk do not condone fundamentalist bigotry, rather they side with fundamental anti-science view.
- Not once has Kirk or Ray been honest to gay/straight people on all of these WOTM programs, meaning they do not "love" them at all. If they define sin based on the Commandments, then they are spreading several lies. There is no Commandments that forbids or condemns lying. They are wrong in regards of adultery and lust. They further show their dishonesty by quoting 1 Corinthians, a text that is considered by the vast majority of critical scholars to be written by a forger.
- First time a "Warning" sign was given on this program. The real warning it should have would be like this: Warning: This program contains scenes of absurd stupidity, lack of common sense, and numerous fallacies and irrational arguments. Viewer discretion is advised.
- That's right, who are THEY to push their beliefs of self-denial and loss of identity? Who are they to tell a homosexual person that , although that is who they are, they are despicable? It is like walking to a dwarf and telling them 'God sees shortness as a sin' - so who are they to tell them that they must turn away from who they are and accept that they are corrupt?
- What WOTM won't share with you is that 1 Timothy is considered by the vast majority of critical Bible scholars was not written by Paul, but by a forger. This means this texts was written upon a lie.
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