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| - 08/12/04 - Town Hall with Philip Linden (Chat Log) Basic Subject: Land and Land Prices You = Paris Parks Edited out Online/Offline messages. Philip Linden: So let me start off, aside from saying thanks for coming, Lady Greenstein: :) Bakuzelas Khan: ty Philip Linden: by giving out a few facts and stuff. Philip Linden: We wanted to focus today on land, Philip Linden: since it has been such an issue lately. Philip Linden: First of all, as to supply on land... Philip Linden: We are on target to put twice as much land through the auctions in august Philip Linden: as we did in july. Philip Linden: So 100% more. Lady Greenstein: :O Philip Linden: This will probably total about 40 sims sold... somewhat more that this online. You: geeze Meatwad Extraordinaire: wow Grimalkin Thereian: cool Philip Linden: This will be quite an increase... more than a 10% landmass increase. Kemru Onizuka: Woah. Philip Linden: Of the entire world. Nicole Burke: wow Philip Linden: As we've said before... we'll be able to handle the load and growth... Lenneth Valkyrie: Nice Philip Linden: we've just needed to get some systems in place. You: isnt there already too much land for sale? Philip Linden: Second, let me talk a bit about economy and prices... Nicole Burke: ya Philip Linden: Many folks worry that the land prices are what drives the whole SL economy... Kemru Onizuka: It costs too much. People think they can get away with highway robbery for tiny postage stamps of land in mature sims Philip Linden: that all the transactions are land. Nicole Burke: will there be more teleports to Philip Linden: We recently have looked at this data, and the results are amazing. Meatwad Extraordinaire: will there be more sandboxes??? Barbarra Blair: shhh You: lol Philip Linden: The SL economy as a whole is growing overall... Meatwad Extraordinaire: sorry Philip Linden: in a way that outstrips land. Musimba Yellowknife: Know Should we wait until you finish what you're telling us before asking questions? Philip Linden: Technically, this is called GDP growth... Philip Linden: people are spending more and transacting more, per person, Philip Linden: than they did a few months ago. Barbarra Blair: cool Philip Linden: This is very exciting... most real world economies grow their GDP Philip Linden: at a rate of only a couple percent per year. Philip Linden: But ours is growing tremendously faster.... Philip Linden: people are making very cool new things to do and sell, Nicole Burke: coolo Musimba Yellowknife: Needs to be slowed Kemru Onizuka: ...so the grid is like a mega first world country Grimalkin Thereian: yippy Philip Linden: and the consumption of those things is going up rapidly. Musimba Yellowknife: Don't want it to burn out Meatwad Extraordinaire: cool Lenneth Valkyrie: I don't think it will burn out. Philip Linden: So, for example, the increase in GOM prices is mostly related to that. Philip Linden: Which is very exciting. You: yea Barbarra Blair: Go GOM! Nicole Burke: yes Grimalkin Thereian: sorry GOM Price? Philip Linden: Land transactions are large, but they are outweighed by the sales of objects and services. Philip Linden: So that is something to keep in mind that is cool. Philip Linden: Also, remember that the so-called 'land barrons' of SL... Philip Linden: those who buy land at auctions and resell... Philip Linden: are not making huge profits... Philip Linden: the average difference between in-world prices and auction payments is about 16% Philip Linden: I'd say that is a fair markup for those buying and reselling land. Philip Linden: So again, not a disaster. You: yea Philip Linden: So let's see.... Philip Linden: the last thing I wanted to add before discussions is around islands. Philip Linden: We are going to make islands transferrable as whole islands... Philip Linden: inotherwards, Nicole Burke: cool You: !!! Philip Linden: you will be able to transfer an island to someone else. Musimba Yellowknife: Makes sense Lady Greenstein: cool You: w00t Philip Linden: You won't be able to subdivide and sell it, though. You: im gonna buy a sim now haha Grimalkin Thereian: ah neat Lenneth Valkyrie: So all or nothing Philip Linden: We haven't done that... just that you can freely transfer a whole one. Philip Linden: This is something folks have needed and asked for. Kemru Onizuka: Uh, at the end, I have a question about buying islands and land textures Philip Linden: OK so that's all my announcements... let's try and chat and answer questions. Chase Rutherford: Thanks for still doing conferences with us. I know it's tougher with all the growth. Meatwad Extraordinaire: i have a question! Philip Linden: we'll always keep doing these things. You: so we wont get $$$ if we sell our persnal islands? Philip Linden: very important. You: wed be out $900 and the next person would get it for free? Philip Linden: Paris... Philip Linden: you are welcome to sell your islands offline if you like... You: ok Kemru Onizuka: Okay, what with the popularity of the new snow sims, I have one small question. Can people who buy their own islands directly from Linden get a custom ground texture and maybe even a sky texture? Philip Linden: we just allow you to tell us to transfer to someone else. Philip Linden: we won't get involved in the sale. Philip Linden: Kemru.... the answer is yes! Kemru Onizuka: !!!! You: will we ever be able to subdivide and sell? Philip Linden: There will be a version update... very soon. Kemru Onizuka: Because my friend wants to buy an island (He's working the money together) and make the land texture volcanic and rocky rather than green Grimalkin Thereian: can any one get diffent land textures? Philip Linden: That will let you apply textures to islands. Philip Linden: I agree this will be very cool. Philip Linden: On subdividing... Meatwad Extraordinaire: for the land for the landless thing, do you get to choose your own land to buy? Philip Linden: We aren't sure how best to handle... are still thinking. You: Ok You: land barons would goc razy lol Philip Linden: It is a problem because the island owner pays for the whole thing.... Philip Linden: and we would need a mechanism to partially adjust or something, Philip Linden: as it was sold. Philip Linden: So we are thinking about that. Philip Linden: Just not done or decided yet. Philip Linden: Also... You: ill wait on my sim then Barbarra Blair: I have a question Kemru Onizuka: How about island access lists? If somebody's banned from an island, can they teleport in? Philip Linden: we are concerned that there is something of a 'tragedy of the commons' here... Meatwad Extraordinaire: ? Philip Linden: that everyone will want islands but noone will like that the world is all broken up. You: yes Philip Linden: Anyone have thoughts about that? Barbarra Blair: I had a related question You: make an area for islands? Barbarra Blair: There are many tiny plots Nicole Burke: u should make the island connected to the world Grimalkin Thereian: There will always be those who can't aford them Barbarra Blair: Could an owner combine them? Kemru Onizuka: Problem is that if somebody with total control over a sim links their sim to the grid, they could kind of mess with the continuity of the grid and it'd look strange... You: are u gonna make this like RL and have countries and such? Musimba Yellowknife: Is it, or will it be possible to increase the number of prims that a plot can hold? Philip Linden: Yeah that is a prob kemru. Meatwad Extraordinaire: if there were countris, u might have to pay for a passport You: lol Philip Linden: Musimba... yes we will increase prims as tech gets faster and with code updates. You: yay Philip Linden: No increase planned for version 1.5 yet. Nicole Burke: yay Kenichi Chen: Philip, it seems to me that there is a small but very wealthy populace and a huge and rather poor populace. The average person ons 1500 lindens but what is the median ....It appears that land prices must come down ....By supply...less folks leave .... Kenichi Chen: will you conyinue to be aggressive with adding sims? Kemru Onizuka: Is the prim count gonna go up once Havok 2 is ported, though? You: isnt there already too much land up for sale? why more sims? Philip Linden: We will add sims very aggressively, yes. Philip Linden: Clearly the price seems somewhat inflated by demand. Barbarra Blair: It is not so much the purchase price as the land fees that stop people from buying land Philip Linden: We will see if we can make it drop a bit. Philip Linden: By adding lots more. Meatwad Extraordinaire: brb Grimalkin Thereian: Great You: wont theyre be too much empty land then Barbarra Blair: not gonna happen You: theres already a bunch for sell Philip Linden: We don't think so Paris... Musimba Yellowknife: Empty land looks nice Kemru Onizuka: I don't see a problem with that. Amida is a little overcrowded already Philip Linden: there has historically been no empty land. You: will there be a time where telehubs will be useless? Nicole Burke: will u guys ever make it so the islands will connect with other sims Meatwad Extraordinaire: back Grimalkin Thereian: Some emptly land is good like country side it's needed Philip Linden: One concern we had from start was that people would buy too much land, a Philip Linden: and the world would be too sparse... Philip Linden: like a bad suburb or something. Barbarra Blair: We can subdivide land, but we can't combine lots-- Kenichi Chen: more sims means more happy people .......amd as aside note philip many folks do not tier up as they dont have th ecash to by th eland to teir up for.... Barbarra Blair: We really need to be able to do that. Chase Rutherford: Adding more sims might help another way: I'd hope that economies of scale would eventually help sim prices. You: with the land use fees the way they are now i wouldnt buy land just to keep it empty Lenneth Valkyrie: Or like from the days of beta? Chase Rutherford: So more people could afford a sim. Philip Linden: right... good point K You: will there be a time where telehubs will be useless? Philip Linden: right P I agree... I think most will be used. Nicole Burke: will u guys ever make it so the islands will connect with other sims Philip Linden: But I think sometimes there is a tendency for people to spread out too much, Philip Linden: then complain that there is noone around! Philip Linden: Nicole... You: id like some farm country areas lol Philip Linden: I think that would be cool. Philip Linden: Maybe somehow we could fill in the water. Philip Linden: We've thought about that. Nicole Burke: hehe Grimalkin Thereian: yes, it's nice there are those who like crows and those who will want space Philip Linden: Important though that there be free space around to fly, etc, as mentioned earlier. Barbarra Blair: Public forests would be nice. You: also id like more protected land bording properties so we dont build up on top of eachother Musimba Yellowknife: Perhaps SL versions of national parks Meatwad Extraordinaire: is it gonna be possible to name a sim if u own the whole thing (dont see that happeneing to me)??? Philip Linden: Parks are a great idea, I agree. Musimba Yellowknife: Spots to rent for camping or placing an RV Philip Linden: I'll think about that. You: more roads and pathways too Nicole Burke: ya Bakuzelas Khan: Roads need help Nicole Burke: more city lands Bakuzelas Khan: Right now the roads dont all connect Bakuzelas Khan: and they um well suck Grimalkin Thereian: Yes I see protected land great idea Bakuzelas Khan: there's holes in them Bakuzelas Khan: in a lot of places. you drop through. Philip Linden: howmeatwad... yes in the islands you can name them I believe. Musimba Yellowknife: How many use the roads? Kemru Onizuka: ARgh, I can't stand that. The roads keep deteriorating as people just find ways to delete parts of them. It's horrible. Meatwad Extraordinaire: cool Bakuzelas Khan: I would if they were better and so would my friends. Nicole Burke: i would Bakuzelas Khan: We used to drive from sim to sim a lot. Philip Linden: do you guys like the idea of roads though? Bakuzelas Khan: But they're very hard to use. Bakuzelas Khan: Use. Barbarra Blair: Yes. Philip Linden: Do you think they help? Nicole Burke: yes Bakuzelas Khan: Sure You: i am buying up an entire sim but you guys own protected land thru it, would u ever sell that when i get the entire sim? Grimalkin Thereian: YES! Bakuzelas Khan: I love them Kemru Onizuka: Yeah, the roads were great. Barbarra Blair: Also some free flyways Musimba Yellowknife: I found lag interferes with driving Bakuzelas Khan: Where else can you drive your car? Bakuzelas Khan: Yes Chase Rutherford: Roads are still fun even if you're flying. Barbarra Blair: I keep flying into buildings Lenneth Valkyrie: The roads are a good idea, but most vheicle physics make the roads hard to dive on. Grimalkin Thereian: or like up in isora they have waterways Nicole Burke: ya Bakuzelas Khan: lag makes it hard plus tho seriously there are spots in the roads where you just drop and get stuck for no real reason. Philip Linden: Right... good points... physics on cars not good enough yet. Philip Linden: but we are working on it. Bakuzelas Khan: always in the same spot. we reported a few. Musimba Yellowknife: Sinkholes? Barbarra Blair: I like the waterways, but spripts are forbidden on parts of them Bakuzelas Khan: yes like that. You: will telehubs be useless someday? Barbarra Blair: *scripts Grimalkin Thereian: on liden waterways? Philip Linden: maybe we nee a road crew? Lenneth Valkyrie: cars, boats, planes, still need some physics work Nicole Burke: ya Philip Linden: we could hire residents to maintain them? Barbarra Blair: Yes, near varney, some waterways are "no script" Barbarra Blair: I think that's a good idea Nicole Burke: i wanna big a airport but i can make a big plane :? Nicole Burke: :/ Bakuzelas Khan: Will it get to a point where the world is so large that you may have whole countries and such to travel to? I mean, I keep thinking that its going to almost mirror the real world some day. Kemru Onizuka: That'd be great, Phillip. I'd definitely join that. You: Philip, will telehubs be useless someday? Will there be no need for them in the future? Chase Rutherford: Paris: I think they want to use telehubs to maintain a rural versus urban feel. Barbarra Blair: Things get dropped into the water and never removed You: hmmm Philip Linden: Paris why would telehubs be useless? What do you mean? Barbarra Blair: I like telehubs Musimba Yellowknife: Someday, it might, Baz Grimalkin Thereian: well it would be nice if they allowed and we had amix of road/pathways and waterways You: Well, why cant we teleport to any spot we want You: we have to go to one place then fly 800m Philip Linden: Here is the thing about teleporting... Meatwad Extraordinaire: i hate that when ur lae to an event Lenneth Valkyrie: Trust me, Telehubs have made going from point to point MUCH easier Philip Linden: actually rather than explaining... Nicole Burke: on events it should tp u to the sopt Kenichi Chen: yes and we used to pay for that too...lol Grimalkin Thereian: Flying let you discoverthings, teleporting to much you wouldn't know whats going on around you Philip Linden: who here would like no telehubs... just direct teleport to anywhere? You: friends can send u a tp to a spot, why cant u offer that to any place? Philip Linden: let's have a vote? You: ME! Musimba Yellowknife: If you teleport directly, then all the other stores amd such ar4e never seen Nicole Burke: i would Kemru Onizuka: I'd rather have telehubs. They're neat. Makes traveling interesting. You: ITD be sooo much easier Lady Greenstein: I would Kenichi Chen: i lik eit th eway it is Meatwad Extraordinaire: dont like telehubs Barbarra Blair: Actually, just MORE telehubs would be nice. Grimalkin Thereian: Telehubs Chase Rutherford: Either leave teleporting like it is, or let us choose our type of teleport. I like it as it is. I see more of SL that way. You: yea maybe MORE telehubs Barbarra Blair: Some places are really remote. Grimalkin Thereian: Right more telehubs Lenneth Valkyrie: I like the telehubs Meatwad Extraordinaire: u kow what i do like the idea of more telehubs Musimba Yellowknife: Telehubs within 500m of everything would be good Nicole Burke: yes more tel and some in mature sims Philip Linden: OK so the overall opinion is make telehubs better and more numerous? You: yes Meatwad Extraordinaire: yes Kenichi Chen: yes Grimalkin Thereian: You meet the nicest people there when you teleport in to them Kemru Onizuka: yeah. You: lol Nicole Burke: and have ssome in mature sims Musimba Yellowknife: affirmqative Chase Rutherford: Yes. More hubs would be good. But some people located away from telehubs on purpose. Philip Linden: but leave the system of short fly/walk/drive in place. Bakuzelas Khan: I was wondering if it would be possible to create a feature to allow people to teleport direclty to your event rather than haivng people use the telehubs for them. Lady Greenstein: If ya don't put in MORE telehubs,,, then just make it so we can TP anywhere .. eaither way would make it much easier Bakuzelas Khan: Would that be possible or a disaster waiting to happen? Philip Linden: How about really rural areas? Don't you want a few of those? Barbarra Blair: 500 m is pretty far-- You: id ulktimatley like to keep telehubs AND teleport anywhere Kenichi Chen: yes that short walk or fly is good to see whats new and th emerchants can sell stuff Chase Rutherford: Philip: I enjoy flying and seeing things on the way to events. You: u dont need large telehubs just little ones everywhere Kemru Onizuka: Oh! I was wondering if there'd ever be a way to set up ban lines that go up to the top of the sky, and also, ban lines that prevent objects owned by banned peopme from entering a parcel. Chase Rutherford: But a really long fly gets monotonous. Philip Linden: I always liked the idea of living somewhere way in the country... Bakuzelas Khan: Usually I ask the host to teleport me in to an event Philip Linden: with no telehubs near, You: ugh i hate ban lines i always hit them on the wya to places Barbarra Blair: I hate flying into invisible walls Philip Linden: so that you would have to travel a long way to visit me. Nicole Burke: thats will be where the farms are hehe Bakuzelas Khan: I would think it might be easier to have a feature on the event listing to request a direct tp Bakuzelas Khan: instead of going to a hub. I rarely do. Philip Linden: But I hear you... everyone wants more... OK. Barbarra Blair: That might be a good idea too Chase Rutherford: Philip: I'm sure some have purposely located away from telehubs. Barbarra Blair: I suppose variety is best. Nicole Burke: i would like to c more city sims Lady Greenstein: Is there any possiblility for events to have a *Remember event option* most times you look through events in the AM and the event thatyou want to go to isn't until the PM and you end up missing... any possiblilty of having a Reminder system established?? Bakuzelas Khan: I can see the point you know of going to the hub for an event to see vendors, but if i refulse to use the feature anyway, I still dont see the vendros. Chase Rutherford: Philip: Yes. Please, sir, may we have some more telehubs? :-) You: hehe Grimalkin Thereian: oh yes personal event reminder Bakuzelas Khan: MORE??? Bakuzelas Khan: Philip Linden: Lady.. we are adding exactly that reminder system in next version. Barbarra Blair: Speaking of events, we need another type of in-game announcement board Lady Greenstein: Yay! Meatwad Extraordinaire: yay Grimalkin Thereian: yay Barbarra Blair: For all these raffles and ads Kemru Onizuka: what's the projected timeline for the next version, and after that? Lady Greenstein: THANK YOU!!! THE SL gawds have answered my prayers LOL Bakuzelas Khan: Yes that was the thing. We almost need regional event boards now. You: ooh for land sale have more search options, allow people to shoose which sim etc Bakuzelas Khan: That's what I was really thinking about the world becoming more divided. Philip Linden: Few weeks... close in. Next version will be soon. Philip Linden: Small enhancements mostly, and bug fixes., Nicole Burke: have shopping sims Bakuzelas Khan: Nomatter how you try to reduce the number of events, there will always be more and more. Barbarra Blair: If you know the sim, you can just fly there and look. Bakuzelas Khan: So one board will not suffice. Chase Rutherford: Regarding teleporting... I hope for being able to set several home positions. Though I know that relates to the "too spread out problem" Philip mentioned earlier. Philip Linden: But improvements to events, and island features like the land texturing. Kemru Onizuka: When's 1.5 supposed to get a release? You: yes i have a lot of land and id like to have direct teleports do MY ;land Barbarra Blair: We actully need more events, not fewer. Philip Linden: Like I said... 1.5 release will be in few weeks. Grimalkin Thereian: True! more events Barbarra Blair: There are 10,000 people here--only about 40 per event! Lenneth Valkyrie: Or when it's ready Kemru Onizuka: Oh. I thought you meant another 1.4.x release D: Bakuzelas Khan: Oh! I have a MAJOR GRIPE. Bakuzelas Khan: I was just reminded. Philip Linden: Barbara... yes I think we need better advertising. Meatwad Extraordinaire: i have trouble aking a place home, i keep trying to make cordova my home but to no avail Barbarra Blair: That is it , exactly You: direct teleports to any land owned by yourself would be nice Bakuzelas Khan: When an ADULT sim crashes, we are invariably ALWAYS teleported to a PG sim!!! WHY??? You: i liked the old event rules too Bakuzelas Khan: Naked people in a PG sim all over it's not a lot of fun. Lenneth Valkyrie: Oooh, what about an item finder system? Where you can search for items for sale by name? Grimalkin Thereian: in our undies Philip Linden: Paris... point taken. You: thanks Philip Linden: maybe that would make sense, Lady Greenstein: lol Philip Linden: going to your land. Chase Rutherford: Perhaps we could have check boxes for the types on events we want to see? Barbarra Blair: Also I'd like to see some support for events that are NOT contests Barbarra Blair: contests are not my favorite sort of thing Philip Linden: Bakuzelas... probably to protect if the sim that crashed was PG... Philip Linden: I bet we don't know in the code which it was... Bakuzelas Khan: that's really too bad Philip Linden: I'll make a note of that though. Bakuzelas Khan: because it's very frustrating and potentially embarrassing Philip Linden: Yes chase we are adding that... Meatwad Extraordinaire: or maybe when in a mature sim and it crashes, have a notice not to ban any nudists appearing Philip Linden: categories for events. Bakuzelas Khan: and also potentially bannable haha Meatwad Extraordinaire: or report i mean Bakuzelas Khan: haha Meatwad Lady Greenstein: lol Serenity Sojourner: You go naked, you take your chances, Meat. ;D Musimba Yellowknife: Have those in the mature sim that crashed teleport to the nearest mature sim Meatwad Extraordinaire: lol Philip Linden: I see what you mean... good point. Musimba Yellowknife: Same with PG Grimalkin Thereian: yes very embressily Nicole Burke: we need tetes in mature sims Nicole Burke: teles Grimalkin Thereian: so is my spelling You: maybe INSTEAD of more protected land, have a 16m border around each propert that cannot be built on? You: nah that wouldnt work Lenneth Valkyrie: What about something like an automatic PG sim crossing system that will select a user selectable outfit on crossing from a mature sim to a PG sim? Grimalkin Thereian: no Chase Rutherford: I am trying to build caves. Perhaps we could adjust the height of Linden water on a parcel? Kemru Onizuka: OH! On private islands, will you ever be able to override the default sun position? And maybe get weather, someday? Barbarra Blair: not for small landholders You: yea Philip Linden: yes paris... but what about when you want to be next to your friend? You: yea it wouldnt work Philip Linden: what defines the border? Bakuzelas Khan: Caves must be impossible to build as it is now. Philip Linden: we could never figure that out. Grimalkin Thereian: right or why buy the pice next to you You: OR maybe have sims that only allow certain type of builds, like classic homes etc, Nicole Burke: i would like to build caves and have land on top of them Grimalkin Thereian: I have one a cave You: id like some home communities Barbarra Blair: There are such places Lenneth Valkyrie: Paris, like themed communities? Bakuzelas Khan: hobbit holes! haha You: yes! Musimba Yellowknife: I just want to dig a hole for a basement Philip Linden: Well large groups are creating communities now... You: yea Chase Rutherford: Themed sims, like Boardman Philip Linden: do you guys think we should have zoning beyond groups? You: boardman is ugly ive seen it Nicole Burke: paris lol Barbarra Blair: NOt in most places Bakuzelas Khan: tyvm Lenneth Valkyrie: Like Kazenojin's community, a winged theme Kenichi Chen: zoning wouls be good Meatwad Extraordinaire: when ur building in the air over ur land, have lines going up to show u where u can buildso it isnt in ur land Barbarra Blair: A combination is best You: some zonings would be nice not everywhere Meatwad Extraordinaire: their land* Chase Rutherford: please.... no zoning except by vote in the old sims Barbarra Blair: some themed, some free Nicole Burke: i owuld like a place like france You: lol Meatwad Extraordinaire: lol Musimba Yellowknife: Heh Barbarra Blair: Darkwood, for example makes sense Nicole Burke: or china lol Chase Rutherford: Zoning should be like PG vs Mature. Another thing people know about whne they buy the land. Bakuzelas Khan: Actually, I support some zoning. Bakuzelas Khan: I think it's needed. Barbarra Blair: But I prefer to be able to build what I want at the time. Serenity Sojourner: Zoning causes enough prob's in RL, do we want to bring it here, too? I'm trying to escape that life here! lol Bakuzelas Khan: So just buy land in a place with no zoning Grimalkin Thereian: zoneing is nice if you don't try and change what is already there Barbarra Blair: Yes, the zoning has to be announced before the sale or something. Philip Linden: much like governance, Kenichi Chen: but a zoned sim where you know what to expect would be very helpful... Meatwad Extraordinaire: brb Philip Linden: we are very careful about zoning. Barbarra Blair: governance, bad idea. Serenity Sojourner: We are already zoned, PG, Mature, etc., lol You: zoning would be good in SOME sims not many Bakuzelas Khan: Then people cant' complain about neighbor's builds Grimalkin Thereian: boo government Barbarra Blair: NOOOOO governement. Musimba Yellowknife: Would it be possible to know in the Land Sales listing which is PG or Mature? Bakuzelas Khan: if everyone agrees on what they are to be. Chase Rutherford: Serenity, I dislike zoning here. But I've had builds ruined by a plywood-using neighbor. Philip Linden: right we are zoned PG and Mature, Nicole Burke: no gover You: oh yea BOO goverment lol Musimba Yellowknife: Don't want to fly over to there just to find out Philip Linden: but other forms would have to be policed... and by who? Bakuzelas Khan: I think government here is useless. Kemru Onizuka: I know this dicsussion is about land, but I was wondering if in 1.5 we'll be able to redefine our animations for walking and typing. Philip Linden: We can't possibly enforce a 'no plywood' zoning rule... Barbarra Blair: REally, I'm tired of junkyards. But they have the right! Philip Linden: we'd have 100 people working on it. You: how do we know who we can trust tho, i dont want this game in the hands of somebody i dont know Bakuzelas Khan: It's still a game actually. it's up to the company to decide what is best for it and it's customers. Nicole Burke: ya Philip Linden: It would have to be done by residents. Bakuzelas Khan: it's still a matter of the consumers deciding. Barbarra Blair: I hate the whole idea of government. Lenneth Valkyrie: Speaking of animations, will we ever see an in game animation builder? Barbarra Blair: yuck pooo Grimalkin Thereian: That was such a problem in "There " don't want to see it here Bakuzelas Khan: haha Barbarra Serenity Sojourner: I undestand that Chase, I've had to put up with ugly next door neighbor's houses here, too, lol, but just don't think we should get upsest about it here, but I speak for myself, lol Philip Linden: we are thinking about an animation builder that is live, yes. Musimba Yellowknife: Yeah. Keep it There You: yes! Philip Linden: but no work done yet. You: will there be anymore new kinds of sims? Barbarra Blair: REally, getting a third party involved is no help in disputes. Lenneth Valkyrie: Nice, since finding funds to buy a copy of Poser is hard for many. You: can we expect new types of sims soon, ie desert, snow etc You: we already got snow but u know Bakuzelas Khan: In Baku, my group W-hat has an interesting build, but unfortunately, most of our neighbors weren't happy, they wanted natural stuff. Zoning would have encouraged us to buy land in an "anything goes" sim, and theneighbors who left anyway could have been Chase Rutherford: Re: Animations... Perhaps LL could workout a discount deal with Curious Labs. Lenneth Valkyrie: Martian landscapes? Bakuzelas Khan: spared a lot of pain by buying in a zoned natural sim. Philip Linden: i think we will work to vary land on new sims.., yes. Musimba Yellowknife: Dessert sim would be good. Build an SL Las Vegas You: yay Philip Linden: So we are working on deserts, etc. You: las vegas haha Nicole Burke: make a desert sim to Philip Linden: I love our old desert in Oak Grove. You: oh what about shadows and lights, any new improvements? Meatwad Extraordinaire: back Bakuzelas Khan: only there are no zoned natural sims! so oh well Nicole Burke: have weather Bakuzelas Khan: wb Kemru Onizuka: Will you ever be able to have animations that change the position of your fingers and so on? Philip Linden: Shadows and lights are coming in a big way, but not in the upcoming release. Bakuzelas Khan: Lighting right now is a NIGHTMARE You: great! Nicole Burke: will we ever have weather Philip Linden: We are prototyping various larger rendering improvements. Bakuzelas Khan: either people dont see it or it doesn't light very well Bakuzelas Khan: and you just give up and force daylight. Philip Linden: I think we will blow people away when we get there. Barbarra Blair: neat Bakuzelas Khan: oooooooo Philip Linden: Lighting is a tremendous problem. Philip Linden: In a fully dynamic environment. Philip Linden: Just imagine Doom3... You: shuny objects look really bad in SL right now You: shiny Philip Linden: where somebody drives a jeep through the wall, Nicole Burke: i want it to snow in the snow sims with out scripts Barbarra Blair: I can live without lighting--what I really want are better clothing templates Philip Linden: and there is a beach outside Lenneth Valkyrie: What about an automatic sim sun override when building? Often building takes a few day/night cycles and is annoying when it's too dark to see prims. Bakuzelas Khan: lol You: how will the graphics be compared to The Sims 2? Philip Linden: I'd like to see it handle that. Kemru Onizuka: Overriding the sun is easy if you know how Philip Linden: Sims 2 is looking nice... but I suspect we will have our own style. You: cool Bakuzelas Khan: Yes but i would rather not force sunrise! Lenneth Valkyrie: Right but it doesn't stay day during building. Kemru Onizuka: I just force the sun into one position Kemru Onizuka: and it stays there until I log Philip Linden: Babara... what templates do you want? Bakuzelas Khan: I like the natural look, but often lighting is just not working for everyone. Barbarra Blair: Ones with seams that match, for one thing. Philip Linden: Yes the current lighting is insuficient. Barbarra Blair: And flowing sleeves are impossible. Nicole Burke: i want rain Bakuzelas Khan: rain yes Grimalkin Thereian: right i just ran in to that Bakuzelas Khan: weather Bakuzelas Khan: more weather please Nicole Burke: yes Barbarra Blair: And Shoes are a nightmare! Bakuzelas Khan: oh god feet lol Nicole Burke: i want snow Bakuzelas Khan: Feet are just not feet You: what about more diverse clothing shapes and hair movement? Kemru Onizuka: Snowy sims should snow and the desert sims should have sandstorms 3: Philip Linden: OK... so seams are a problem. Grimalkin Thereian: the strips on my socks don't work Nicole Burke: yes Barbarra Blair: And a jacket that is not tighter than the shirts You: weather would go thru buildings tho :"/ Bakuzelas Khan: nothing lines up when making clothing Kenichi Chen: we there ever be an opportunity to uplaod models made in standard 3d file types like obj..dxf or the like? Barbarra Blair: Yep, the lining up is the real problem. You: yea to wear clothes on Bakuzelas Khan: you make a line across the clothing and it's all off Kemru Onizuka: That would be a nightmare, Kenichi. Bakuzelas Khan: you have to make lots of templates. Kemru Onizuka: Griefers would make 3 bazillion poly objects and drop them into sandboxes Bakuzelas Khan: lots of wasted uplaods still Bakuzelas Khan: *uploads Bakuzelas Khan: Groups please help us wiht groups Bakuzelas Khan: why only 10??? Bakuzelas Khan: why? Philip Linden: we aren't working on other uploaders... Bakuzelas Khan: WHY?? Bakuzelas Khan: lol Philip Linden: but at some point maybe we'll come up with a format so users can build plugins. Lady Greenstein: OMG YES@!!!!!!!! Bakuzelas Khan: well i mean when things dont line you you have to pay for more uploading was what i mean Barbarra Blair: Also, would be nice to be able to share ownership of land with just one other person. Lady Greenstein: I think it should be atleast 25,50, 100 Groups LOL Grimalkin Thereian: oh yes Bakuzelas Khan: because that little teeny model you can't see anything on clearly Chase Rutherford: I just want 11 groups. I always need just 1 more. Philip Linden: Would you like a bigger preview model? You: im sick of running out of groups and having to cancel Lady Greenstein: lol Bakuzelas Khan: well if you have groups for land or every mall you vend at, there are no groups left for fun Kemru Onizuka: Will you ever have different ranks in groups? Instead of just officer and member. I want FAncy, Impressive, and Bland members for my group! Musimba Yellowknife: Then you'll need 12 Bakuzelas Khan: ohyes Barbarra Blair: The preview model is not accurate. Bakuzelas Khan: a bigger previewer model would be excellent Chase Rutherford: re: Land barons... There was a really interesting idea in the forums about basing monthly land fees on the total, coummulative amount of land owned during the month rather than the maximum owned at one time. Would that be a good idea? Grimalkin Thereian: pairs owning land jointly , like RL Barbarra Blair: Sleeves don't look the same Lenneth Valkyrie: I'd like to see some kind of avatar duplication system where you can make a dummy of yourself to make attachments for your avatar. Barbarra Blair: And you can't see feet Lady Greenstein: YES Phillip,,, anything better then the model we have now,,,,, and something we can roate to see the top of hte shoulders so we know that our straps are lined up LOL You: yea! Bakuzelas Khan: yes! Kemru Onizuka: GOD, yes Bakuzelas Khan: you can't see top down Philip Linden: Chase... that idea would penalize small landowners whenever they moved. Nicole Burke: yea Philip Linden: But yes, something to think about. Grimalkin Thereian: YES YES better models Barbarra Blair: But back to land-- You: can we make duplicated of our bodys into a prim and allow to put clothing on it? like a maniqen Philip Linden: I don't think more taxes on land resellers is the key though... just more land. Lady Greenstein: LOL Barbarra Blair: It is too hard to reunite bits of land that have been subdivided Bakuzelas Khan: haha Kopi Baku Bakuzelas Khan: then i could be in 2 places at once! Bakuzelas Khan: lol Lady Greenstein: LOL Bakuzelas Khan: a mannequin of me Musimba Yellowknife: Do the can can BY YOURSELF Bakuzelas Khan: lol Lady Greenstein: Philip.. why are Events named "RATING PARTY" not allowed???? You: i want mannequins we can put clothes on to sell Meatwad Extraordinaire: gotta pee, brb Bakuzelas Khan: k You: lol Philip Linden: lady... Nicole Burke: i would like to clone myself to put clothes on to see what to wear etc. Musimba Yellowknife: Just go around the hill, Meat Kemru Onizuka: IS there any way you can put land up for sale without having to maintain it? If we wanted to move our place (The Makai), we'd be out like $50 total because we'd all have to tier up until the land sold, which is... not insignificant. Serenity Sojourner: lol@lady Philip Linden: well we are trying to put our fingers in the dike there... Barbarra Blair: Also, I read that the ratings system will change--what is that about? Philip Linden: the rating system needs some improvments... Lady Greenstein: LOL Philip Linden: and rating parties (where you just rate everyone) just make it worse. Kenichi Chen: philip --has Sl been expanded and growing along the ways you evisioned and modeled? From my perspective the growth has been staggering.... Nicole Burke: yes You: i wanna have kids in this game then u can auction them off so a RL person can play them LOL i know it sounds weird :P Lady Greenstein: YA think????? Nicole Burke: lol Lady Greenstein: will we be allowed Rating parties int he future?? Philip Linden: man that would be weird... Philip Linden: Kenicihi... Serenity Sojourner: So does that mean that soon people who abuse temp accounts won't be able to neg rate someone over and over again? I hope? lol Lenneth Valkyrie: Yes, the rating system needs to rely on less $L, I've been dying to rate members but only have $1 L You: haha Philip Linden: I am very happy with growth and how SL is turning out... Philip Linden: on that note... Bakuzelas Khan: yes why does it cost lindens to rate? Philip Linden: remember that SL is very young... You: omg ratins suck someone rated me NEG cuz they didnt like my for sale sign cuz it was PINK!!! Philip Linden: and will go through stages. Nicole Burke: i hate paying to rate ppl Bakuzelas Khan: haha Paris Meatwad Extraordinaire: back Bakuzelas Khan: wb Musimba Yellowknife: Capability ro rate someone should not be dependent upon having money Kemru Onizuka: I'm being asked if there'd ever be a linux port of SL. Kenichi Chen: yes and thankfull philip you guys are always here to fix change alter and improve Serenity Sojourner: I love paying to rate people worth rating, lol You: lol Lady Greenstein: SL is 500% better then most Online games i have played.. the time and effort that has been put into it is MUCH appreciated ) Philip Linden: I think SL will become very big very fast, a Grimalkin Thereian: I like that you have to pay makes you think twice Chase Rutherford: Serenity : I don't mind paying to rate either. Meatwad Extraordinaire: sooooo muuuch chattting Meatwad Extraordinaire: hard to keep up Serenity Sojourner: Yes, it should, Musimba, otherwise jerks would neg rate all the time and abuse it if they didn't have to pay. Nicole Burke: yes Bakuzelas Khan: what if you only get so many ratings to give out a week? Lenneth Valkyrie: Any plans on selling a "boxed" version of SL in stores? Bakuzelas Khan: instead of charging people? Barbarra Blair: Well I love this place! just had to say that. Philip Linden: yeah we are all talking pretty fast. Philip Linden: Thanks B! Musimba Yellowknife: That's a goo thought lenneth Serenity Sojourner: lol Barbarra!! I second that emotion...*sings* Bakuzelas Khan: haha then i probably wouldn't get rated at all then :P so nm Philip Linden: Lenneth... I don't think we'll need to... Kemru Onizuka: Boxed version of SL? The game is 20mb to download, it'd be a waste of paper. Barbarra Blair: [hate the ignore button on lldialog, tho] Grimalkin Thereian: no don't limit my abilty to say i like some thing i'm will to pay Bakuzelas Khan: yes it's a lot of fun, SL Philip Linden: as word gets out it will be faster and easier to download. Lenneth Valkyrie: Would increase the visibility of SL to gamers. Musimba Yellowknife: But it is a good marketing gimmick Chase Rutherford: Yes, thanks for *not* doing a boxed version of SL Meatwad Extraordinaire: thx You: i couldnt WAIT for The Sims 2, now i could care less Kemru Onizuka: I think the fact that it's freely downloadable is a far greater marketting gimmick than a box set would ever be. Barbarra Blair: I agree Philip Linden: TY Paris! Kemru Onizuka: Certainly influenced MY decision to play. Meatwad Extraordinaire: i wouldnt lk=ike a boxed version cause u gotta buy the game then ay monthly after that Barbarra Blair: And the low lifetime membership cost is great Meatwad Extraordinaire: thats why i dont ow lineage 2 Meatwad Extraordinaire: own* Nicole Burke: i would like to buy more land but dont wanna upgrade me teir Bakuzelas Khan: oh this is way better than The Sims Meatwad Extraordinaire: hands down Musimba Yellowknife: Could give away free CD's like AOL. Uh, maybe not Serenity Sojourner: Especially when Sims "expansion" packs come out practically every month for large amounts of money, then are rendered obsolete after a couple of years! Bakuzelas Khan: the online game and sims 2. sims 2 you wont be able to interact with anyone just obseve. Lenneth Valkyrie: Well if you do buy a "boxed" version you'd get some kind of incentive to keep playing, like 4 months free with the purchase of the boxed version. Meatwad Extraordinaire: then why make cds, we download it for frewe too Bakuzelas Khan: Sims offline is like an antfarm Barbarra Blair: Build it yourself is a far better concept. You: lol Nicole Burke: lo,. Nicole Burke: lol Serenity Sojourner: lol Bakuzelas!!! Meatwad Extraordinaire: lol Chase Rutherford: "$10 one-time, then play for life" and "Free download" perhaps those could be stresses in advertising Bakuzelas Khan: it is! Meatwad Extraordinaire: mmm, pizza Bakuzelas Khan: i still like it, but it is. Kemru Onizuka: Phillip, what happened to the concept of a "Mobile" SL so that I could talk to people on SL while restricted to net access via my cellphone? Philip Linden: We are thinking about mobile... Philip Linden: people did like that idea. Meatwad Extraordinaire: cool Lady Greenstein: That would be awsome!! LOL Lenneth Valkyrie: Pocket SL Chat Nicole Burke: how would u see where u r lol Philip Linden: But bear in mind we are small, and very focused on bugs and stuff now. Musimba Yellowknife: The technology is almost ready for mobile. You: just chat i think nicole Musimba Yellowknife: Maybe next year? Nicole Burke: oh Kemru Onizuka: I could probably write a SMS gateway using XMLRPC, but it always seems like XMLRPC stuff is kludged. Meatwad Extraordinaire: nicole, u know how much lag u would get bye playing the game in a cell phone? You: hahahah Nicole Burke: lool Nicole Burke: lol Kemru Onizuka: My friend wrote a XMLRPC IRC bot and it randomly forgets to say things. Grimalkin Thereian: It's bad enough on the laptop traveling Philip Linden: well one can do mobile without graphics, etc... Musimba Yellowknife: My cell does 128Kb and that's considered high speed. Bleah Meatwad Extraordinaire: with what some people make that create lag, u couldnt move Philip Linden: that is an advantage of the thin client. Bakuzelas Khan: ty Musimba Yellowknife: Of course, it is a smaller screen than my desktop Nicole Burke: would u guys ever cut down the prices on the land fees? Meatwad Extraordinaire: thx Philip Linden: Nicole... on the tiers you mean? Kemru Onizuka: I'd love a low-graphics version of the mac port that doesn't require use of Altivec. So I could play or at least chat from my laptop Nicole Burke: yes Meatwad Extraordinaire: mmmmmm, pizza Bakuzelas Khan: or let us use lindens to pay..but a reasonable amount. not 10k for 512sq m Philip Linden: Well we'll get some more data on what people are paying on average... Meatwad Extraordinaire: im using a laptop now Philip Linden: and keep evaluating it. Meatwad Extraordinaire: the only comp i own Philip Linden: There are some pretty heavy costs associated with the grid. Philip Linden: Keep that in mind. Musimba Yellowknife: I had chicken pizze for dinner, Meat Nicole Burke: cuz i would buy so much more land if the teir was cheaper Meatwad Extraordinaire: im having extra cheese Philip Linden: We deliver about 100Mbps continuous, for example. Philip Linden: at busy time.s Bakuzelas Khan: Why is there a 10 group limit anyway? You: ty grim Bakuzelas Khan: wow Philip Linden: And of course... 300 machines is quite a few. Philip Linden: So noone likes the 10 group limit? Serenity Sojourner: lol Chase Rutherford: 300!!! wow Kemru Onizuka: I'd love to see the Linden Labs server room someday Bakuzelas Khan: no it's really really really really bad Musimba Yellowknife: That's a lot of heat to disipate Chase Rutherford: Please get rid of the 10 group limit Bakuzelas Khan: I mean, i need groups just for vendors Philip Linden: yeah we need to give tours... Barbarra Blair: Since you have to join groups to sell in open markets, it is really restrictive Bakuzelas Khan: and i want groups for fun too Philip Linden: it is pretty cool. Bakuzelas Khan: yes Philip Linden: But at a very secure facility. Philip Linden: So hard to show off! Bakuzelas Khan: haha Chase Rutherford: aww Musimba Yellowknife: How is the environment controlled for the SL servers? Lady Greenstein: The 10 group limit sucks!! I have had to quit so many groups.. because every mall that im a vendor at i need to be in their group so my objects don't get returned...... which leaves me no groups for my FUN stuff Kemru Onizuka: take some photos for us. People go crazy for pages with a photo tour of data centers Barbarra Blair: Right Bakuzelas Khan: yes Lenneth Valkyrie: A tour of the Linden Labs HQ? How about an inworld version? Bakuzelas Khan: that's what people use groups for Philip Linden: you mean temperature and stuff? The servers are packed into racks... about 35 sims to a rack. Philip Linden: So there are 10 or so racks so far. Bakuzelas Khan: things like keeping objects from vanishing and things like that Meatwad Extraordinaire: inworld would be greatg Chase Rutherford: I'd love to see and in-world version of LL! Bakuzelas Khan: social, and business Philip Linden: We've basically begun buying machines by the rack... imagine that. Musimba Yellowknife: That idea about an inworld tour is interesting Bakuzelas Khan: haha cool Kemru Onizuka: Yow. The cost of that must be outta this world Meatwad Extraordinaire: lol Grimalkin Thereian: hehe you could have an in world office and we could drop in and say hi, or ask questions Philip Linden: Grimalkin... that is a cool idea. Philip Linden: I'll think about that. Musimba Yellowknife: In 10 years, the equivalent will fit on a desktop and cost $500. Heh Barbarra Blair: Back to something you said, though, I think getting help from resident volunteers is a good idea Serenity Sojourner: In another 3D chat I belonged to, we did tours daily, it was a great way to see what all the program offers. Meatwad Extraordinaire: or... Barbarra Blair: for sim cleanup and that sort of thing Lady Greenstein: Philip.. Is there any plans for upgrading the Govenors mansion??? Kemru Onizuka: Linden Labs, the Sim. It's a 300 meter tall tower with horrible biotech experiments in it! Meatwad Extraordinaire: u could have a sim of LL an have a room with a big movie screen that shos a webcam Barbarra Blair: So maybe the helpers could be paid in $L that they could use for land costs... Bakuzelas Khan: hahah Chase Rutherford: Kemru: lol Philip Linden: Yeah maybe we torture residents Serenity Sojourner: lol Lady Greenstein: lol Nicole Burke: when will u guys sell a whole sim on auctions again Meatwad Extraordinaire: lol Grimalkin Thereian: hehehe Musimba Yellowknife: This is getting sick. I like it Meatwad Extraordinaire: XD Serenity Sojourner: I'm getting outta here now!!! :O Chase Rutherford: Get volunteerism alive for any torture tho. :-) Bakuzelas Khan: hahaha! Lady Greenstein: lol You: Oh yea will we ever be able to play move files in game like put it on a prim etc? Philip Linden: We'll sell some whole sims soon, Nicole. Nicole Burke: ok You: Oh yea will we ever be able to play move files in game like put it on a prim etc? Meatwad Extraordinaire: with all the ones ur planning to make, why not Kemru Onizuka: Hey, will attachment prims ever be able to be turned into cloth like clothing? STuff that moves with the composite count set to high, that is Philip Linden: Yes I'm sure we will support video at some point... You: cool Meatwad Extraordinaire: dang, need more sices of pizza Philip Linden: but I don't have a definite plan. Meatwad Extraordinaire: brb Lady Greenstein: lol Bakuzelas Khan: k Philip Linden: Given my personal history though you can count on it You: If we buy an entire sim at aution can we change the name or rating? Grimalkin Thereian: plesase stop with the pizza, i'm hungry Lenneth Valkyrie: brb, need to let the dog out Bakuzelas Khan: ok Barbarra Blair: afk Philip Linden: (For those who don't know me, I was VP/CTO of RealNetworks) You: !!!!! Nicole Burke: coool Lady Greenstein: AFK, child beating time LOL Philip Linden: Paris not in the mainland. You: philip impressive Meatwad Extraordinaire: back Bakuzelas Khan: lol Kemru Onizuka: woah, holy--- Kemru Onizuka: That's quite a resume right there Philip Linden: I was acquired by Real to build RealVideo... in 1997. That was my project. You: whoa Meatwad Extraordinaire: whoa Philip Linden: So I've done a lot of video stuff. You: well uve affected a lot off pplz lives lol Alpha Zaius: hey all! Philip Linden: Yes it was fun... but this will be much bigger and more important, I think. Bakuzelas Khan: hi! You: gosh wouldnt that be amazing Kemru Onizuka: Video codecs come and go, but I think SL will probably last a long time. You: this be bigger than Real Player Alpha Zaius: does someone have a log I can look at Meatwad Extraordinaire: yup Meatwad Extraordinaire: lol Meatwad Extraordinaire: its miles long Meatwad Extraordinaire: XD Philip Linden: Yes if someone would like to mail me the log or just post in forums... TY. Bakuzelas Khan: I want the brain implant so i'm here all the time! Alpha Zaius: well, the last few minutes Philip Linden: OK... Meatwad Extraordinaire: XD Kemru Onizuka: my friends and I all agree that the best part about SL is the knowledge that SL will always be improving Meatwad Extraordinaire: me too You: i cna pos this in the forums if u want Musimba Yellowknife: Thats SL 9.4, Bak Philip Linden: I want to go so I can work on some of the stuff we talked about. Meatwad Extraordinaire: i want a brain implant Bakuzelas Khan: haha Kemru Onizuka: heh Nicole Burke: hehe You: shall i post this in the forums? Bakuzelas Khan: Thank you very much for this talk Philip Philip Linden: So this was great... a good format. Chase Rutherford: Thansk again for meeting with us, Philip Philip Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today. Meatwad Extraordinaire: thanks Barbarra Blair: Thank you very much. Nicole Burke: ty Alpha Zaius: well ok, have a nice day You: thanks philip Bakuzelas Khan: Take care all Kemru Onizuka: That was a great conversation, Phillip. Thanks for having us! Philip Linden: I'm going to set the sim back to higher person limits... Musimba Yellowknife: Thanks for the info, Philip Philip Linden: prepare to be boarded Bakuzelas Khan: yay Grimalkin Thereian: oh name that new office build you are going to set up in after me :P Bakuzelas Khan: haha! Meatwad Extraordinaire: lol, been here so long my mouse turned off to save battery Alpha Zaius: is this about land? Alpha Zaius: lol Nicole Burke: oh why can we only have so many pl in a sim Nicole Burke: ppl Alpha Zaius: it will lag the server Meatwad Extraordinaire: so there werent a lot of people in his chat Alpha Zaius: which is a worse experiance to plays in large sims Nicole Burke: oh Musimba Yellowknife: After I added memory to my computer, there was less lag Philip Linden: OK all... thanks again. Great to meet all. Meatwad Extraordinaire: ur welcome Nicole Burke: ty Alpha Zaius: Land prices: possible no sell land? Grimalkin Thereian: nice to meet you too Alpha Zaius: al release Bakuzelas Khan: have a great nite! Barbarra Blair: Farewell Alpha Zaius: cya
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