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| - __NOWYSIWYG__ In "A New Spiritual Age", Iroh said, "I had always enjoyed the company of the spirits, so when my work was done in the material world, I chose to leave my body behind and come to the Spirit World." The word "chose" is of vital importance when it comes to listing Iroh as deceased, as it leaves two options imo: 1.
* Iroh committed suicide and as such chose to come to the spirit world -I don't think I need to elaborate further as to why I don't think that is what the creators meant; or 2.
* Iroh crossed over to the Spirit World by meditation (he didn't go through a portal as 1. they weren't open yet, and 2. he said he left his body behind). So going on what we know from both series, one can mediate into the Spirit World by leaving their body behind. However, that doesn't necessarily have to mean that said person died, only that their physical body and soul are separated. We also know that people in the Avatar world can get really old. As such, it wouldn't be so weird to have Iroh still alive and kicking -or sitting around motionlessly as his spirit has left his body-at age 135. To avoid another "Amon and Tarrlok have not been shown explicitly to be blown to bit, so they could still be alive", I'm starting this discussion to get community consensus as to how to factually proceed with how we list Iroh: alive or death or we just make not mention of it at all and completely stick to the facts that he is just in the Spirit World, thus leaving it in the middle. Personally, I am a fan of just listing him to be "in the Spirit World" as opposed to "deceased" as the latter is not definitely confirmed given what we know, and not saying anything at all would be ignoring what we know. But that's just me. So thoughts? 15:24, November 10, 2013 (UTC) I'm not sure Iroh could be alive at the moment. Even if he lived to be 135, Iroh has been in the Spirit World for years. I don't see how anyone could survive decades without sustenance in meditation. I find it most likely that Iroh meditated into the Spirit World, stayed there, and at some point, his physical body just perished. The one way I can see Iroh as still physically alive, is if his situation is somehow akin to Rafa's. Rafa had his face taken away, and stayed that way for years, so he couldn't eat, drink, and breathe, but somehow remained alive. If a body without a soul functions like that, then I can see Iroh as still being alive. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:39, November 10, 2013 (UTC) Perhaps Jinora's condition will shed some light on the situation as she is practically in the same boat now -albeit unvoluntarily. If she is not shown to have any kind of physical repercussion due to the separation of mind and body, then I don't see why we can make a definite claim. We also don't know if any deceased person goes to the Spirit World, thus it also leaves the question if Iroh's conscious choice -and perhaps the way he crossed over or where his body is left- has something to do with it. That is why I opt for leaving it vague and just stick to listing the facts that he is in the Spirit World, as that is the only thing we truly know for sure without any ambiguity. 16:45, November 10, 2013 (UTC) Hmm, so as Avatar does take a lot of influences from Hinduism, I think Hinduism can shed some light on this issue. When a great soul (as in a realized person) feels that his time on Earth is over, that person will choose to leave the body, and free themselves from the cycle of life and death. Thus they did commit "suicide", however it is not considered so, as it is considered as leaving the body for the next journey, much like Iroh did. Those who have left their body are considered deceased so, perhaps the same applies to Iroh? One good example of what I just said can be found in the life of Swami Vivekananda, note the section on his death. Srijay K - TechFilmer 22:07, November 10, 2013 (UTC) Hm... the way I thought of it was that he left his body behind, and his soul was separated so once his body died he lived on in the spirit world— I was assuming that "work was done in the material world" meant that he was ready to die. Then again, that is speculation, and marks him as both alive and dead. Since I feel like at this point it could really go either way, I support changing his status to "In the spirit world" per Losis's suggestion. I think it would be hard to say that he is definitely alive or dead, as it was clearly inferred with Amon/Tarrlok, so leaving it as kind of ambiguous works the best imo. And I think that marking him as dead per Hinduism doesn't exactly work either, as the show has contradicted the faith sometimes as well as it is in general not a good enough source to list something we aren't completely sure of on an article. 23:17, November 10, 2013 (UTC) I'm with ATFF. I took his statements as meaning that he chose to leave his body after he died, but then again we really have no idea how afterlife works in the Avatar World, so the safest bet is to note that he's in the Spirit World until we get a better indication of his status in the physical world. File:Waterbending emblem.png Water Spout 23:32, November 10, 2013 (UTC) I don't think it's something as simple as Iroh's soul going to the Spirit World after he died, because he wanted to go there. If this was something as simple as afterlife, Spirit World would be crawling with human souls. Unless there is non-Avatar reincarnation until a soul is enlightened or anything similar. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:41, November 10, 2013 (UTC) we should change his status to "in the spirit world", and leave the facts here up to interpretation of article readers. that said, iroh did say that he chose to cross over once "his time in the material world was over." (<--paraphrased). idk what else that could mean other than him dying. Intelligence4 (wall • contribs) 02:17, November 11, 2013 (UTC) Omni: So assuming that this whole concept was drawn from Hinduism, till a soul is enlightened/realized they go through the cycle of birth and death. So that may be why there is scarcity among human spirits. ATFF: Contradictions wise, it has followed it fairly well in regards to the reincarnation of the Avatar, so that does give some credibility to my point, however, as it is not official, it may still have no meaning. Srijay K - TechFilmer 05:55, November 11, 2013 (UTC) Personally, I took his statements on having left the material world behind and him being in the spirit world now in the episode to mean that he died, but reached a level of "enlightenment" where his consciousness crossed over to live among the spirits after his physical body was deceased. His condition seemed much more permanent than Jinora's, and Iroh was always connected to the spirits in life, such as when he saw the dragon spirit Aang traveled on in Book 1 and the mention of his prior connection to the spirits, so it's easy to see that connection being maintained after his death, moreso than other humans (whatever happens to them once their time is up.) Since we don't explicitly know what the case is here, it's probably best if we do like we did with Amon's "energybending" and other similar topics, and just word it vaguely for now. -- 04:12, November 13, 2013 (UTC) But the way Iroh passed on is almost similar to how Yue passed on to the spirit world, either way, his body is physically dead. --Torresp (wall • contribs) 14:53, November 16, 2013 (UTC) Although Torresp reasoning to conclude that Iroh is physically dead is wrong, he is right to say that Iroh is physically dead. With the information of the new episodes that showed how Jinora was slowly dying, we can now say based on canonical evidence that Iroh's body will have perished. 15:46, November 16, 2013 (UTC) I support the "in the Spirit World" option. We didn't see him actually die. We didn't see a gravestone. We haven't heard someone relate the tale of his death. All we have is him saying he "chose". And given that the point of the Korra Book 2 finale is that people can just walk into the Spirit World, an entirely literal interpretation is possible. We don't really know yet — and it seems a probable subject of B3 — how the Spirit World interacts with ordinary benders like Iroh over the long term. Perhaps it does preserve you. There's nothing I've seen yet that definitively precludes a status of "alive, but in the Spirit World". 21:28: Tue 19 Nov 2013 I suppose this is a very hot discussion as we all want to know if all of us fans can consider Iroh to be 'dead'. I think he is dead in the terms of being a spirit living in an 'afterlife', but technically if he is a spirit and so with Korra opening up the spirit portals, he possibly can visit the material world if he wants to. Characters such as Sokka and Jet are dead, but we don't know if they made it to the Spirit World or are instead being kept in a more eternal final destination unless reincarnation is common in the series' universe and not just for the Avatar. Such was surprisingly considered in the development of Momo as one of the early plans was to make him the reincarnation of Monk Gyatso. Anyway I think its still to be debated but I feel Iroh, uncle of Zuko and father of the late Lu Ten, is in fact dead or is less supposed to be 136 years old (current year is 171 AG, he was born in 35 AG) and just continuing life as a spirit is yet to be offically determined. --Riadse96 (wall • contribs) 04:23, November 21, 2013 (UTC) Since he did leave his body in the mortal world, his body would be long dead by 171 AG. This one is tricky. Personally I would leave his status as ambiguous until we get more information. The creators really biffed this one so maybe they'll give us more information about Iroh soon. Lucid ☆Star 16:33, November 23, 2013 (UTC) I'm confused at where the ambiguity is, here. Jinora was expected to die within a week after being separated from her body. Iroh's been separated from it for many years. "He's dead, Jim." Saying that he lives on as a Spirit ignores that the Avatars became Spirits after death, & they are still considered dead.Neo Bahamut (wall • contribs) 08:14, November 25, 2013 (UTC) This forum started right after "A New Spiritual Age", when the effects on the body where not yet known. The moment the other four episodes aired and the effects on Jinora's body became apparent, it was noted that Iroh had died, though this forum remained open since people kept commenting on it. So yes, there was initial ambiguity, though that was cleared up by the series a week after. 15:55, November 25, 2013 (UTC) Well, it kind of looked like this was still being debated.Neo Bahamut (wall • contribs) 00:48, November 26, 2013 (UTC) Myeah, I've been waiting for people to leave this alone for three days so it can be closed ^^. 00:50, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
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