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| - __NOWYSIWYG__ To reflect the facts learned from The Search Part 3, I think all information regarding Noren should be moved to Ikem and all information about Noriko should be moved to Ursa and the page Noren and Noriko should be deleted as it is no longer needed. Mts606 (wall • contribs) 01:46, October 31, 2013 (UTC) Normally I would agree with you, but considering that Noren and Noriko are cover identities with their own (false) history and memories, they are their own characters in their own right hence deserve their own page. Except for Zuko, Aang, Katara and Sokka, the rest of the Avatar world still thinks Ikem and Ursa are dead (as pointed out in the comics). Unless of course, Zuko brings Ursa home to the Fire Nation, which is unlikely for now IMHO. What I suggest is to keep the page, just like we have a separate page for character relationships. [FYI: Once Upon a Time Wiki has separate pages for the "real" Enchanted Forest personas and their Storybroke counterparts, e.g., Prince Charming and David Nolan. We don't have to follow their policy but it seems like a good idea to adopt one time in this specific case. My 2 cents. ] — Hasdi Bravo • 17:02, October 31, 2013 (UTC) It doesn't matter if they are cover identities with their own history. If they're the same people as Ikem and Ursa, they should be regarded as such on this wiki. "Noren" and "Noriko" are just alias, like "Lee" was to Zuko in Season 2. And this isn't about what the Avatar world knows; this is about what we know. In the Young Justice wiki, we have a policy of merging pages whenever two or more identities are revealed to be the same person. We should follow the same policy on this wiki. In other words, I agree with Mts606. --Cari1994 (wall • contribs) 17:37, October 31, 2013 (UTC) Having a separate article isn't necessary for that. Noren and Noriko can be added as sections in Ikem and Ursa's respective histories. It just makes more sense to have all the information in one place. And it doesn't really matter that the rest of the world doesn't know about them; the wiki states the facts regardless of who does or doesn't know them. What works for one wiki doesn't necessarily work for this wiki. Usually, when a character has another identity, it is added to the main article, not a separate one (i.e. The Blue Spirit). The only reason we have an article for Noren and Noriko is because it was assumed that they were different individuals. If all the information had been presented at once, that article would not exist. Sections would have just been added to the existing pages. Mts606 (wall • contribs) 17:47, October 31, 2013 (UTC) Thank you, Mts606. That's exactly what I'm saying.--Cari1994 (wall • contribs) 17:52, October 31, 2013 (UTC) I am not really convinced with the counterexamples of Zuko's Lee and the Blue Spirit because Zuko only used those cover identities briefly not for years and years. However, for sake of reducing page clutter, I suggest we place the entirety of "Noren and Noriko" as a section under Ikem, especially since Noren retained full memory of Ikem and Ikem's page is small anyway. As for "Ursa", we have a brief section that link back to that Ikem's section. What sayest ye? — Hasdi Bravo • 17:56, October 31, 2013 (UTC) It doesn't matter how long they used those names or what memories they retained or not. "Noren" and "Noriko" are two different people and they are the same people as Ikem and Ursa, respectively. If "Noriko" is the same person as Ursa, her history should go into Ursa's page. --Cari1994 (wall • contribs) 18:08, October 31, 2013 (UTC) Not really, the main reason we decided to have a one page for Lo and Li is so we do not duplicate information on two different pages hence create extra work for editors. For practical reasons, I feel it is best to have Noren and Noriko on only one of the pages not both. Ikem's page is a good candidate because his entry is small. Ursa's page is already massive. We do have an existing guideline on this wiki to split off pages to keep it at a "reasonable length". — Hasdi Bravo • 18:16, October 31, 2013 (UTC) It wouldn't be totally duplicating information, as "Noren" and "Noriko" are not together all the time and when they are together, they're doing different things from each other. Lo and Li, on the other hand, are always together and they're always doing the same things as each other when they're together. And Ursa's page may be big, but what we know of "Noriko's" history is small in comparison. A few more paragraphs wouldn't make much of a difference.--Cari1994 (wall • contribs) 18:31, October 31, 2013 (UTC) Yes, what we know of Noriko's history is small in comparison. Which is why we can have one paragraph under "Life as Noriko" section in Ursa's page, and include the {{Main<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>}} template to point to "Noren and Noriko" section in Ikem's page. — Hasdi Bravo • 18:46, October 31, 2013 (UTC) i agree with cari1994 and OP. i hate the way once upon a time wiki separates the pages like that, there's no good logic behind it. the noriko and noren page should be deleted and the information should be put on the ursa and ikem pages. Intelligence4 (wall • contribs) 20:45, October 31, 2013 (UTC) I don't see a problem with merging the appropriate information from Noren and Noriko into each of Ursa's and Ikem's pages. The article for Ursa is not overly long right now anyway, so adding this information would not make take it beyond reasonable length. Also, what point is there having a small section on Ursa's page for her history as Noriko, that refers users to more extensive history on Ikem's page. Why not just cut out the unnecessary referral, and add all the relevant information to Ursa's page. It seems strange to do otherwise. 22:01, October 31, 2013 (UTC) Per HoT. I would have agreed to keeping separate pages if each of their lives were detailed extensively, but the information to add is not overwhelming and would actually benefit both the Ursa and Ikem pages. File:Waterbending emblem.png Water Spout 00:35, November 1, 2013 (UTC) Oh well. If the history section for Noren and Noriko is small to begin with, I suppose we could have the section "Life as Noren" under Ikem page and "Life as Noriko" under Ursa. I suspect Noriko's section will have a small overlap with Noren's section but we'll see how that goes. So, the next question becomes, should Noren and Noriko page be deleted or redirected to Noren's section, which I presume to be bigger? — Hasdi Bravo • 00:44, November 1, 2013 (UTC) However elaborate their disguises were, they were still disguises, so I don't think they should have pages on their own. As mentioned, "Life as fake identity" section can be added to their Ursa and Ikem's articles, with proper redirects to each. By proper redirect, I mean separate ones, according to their fake names. That would make the "Noren and Noriko" article pointless, in which case I support it being deleted. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:48, November 1, 2013 (UTC) Yes, of course, but I rather not lose editor contributions of "Noren and Noriko". Please consider renaming the "Noren and Noriko" page to "Noren" page then edit "Noren" into a redirect to "Ikem". Gracias. — Hasdi Bravo • 01:17, November 1, 2013 (UTC)
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