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| - Give up your reason, logic, and intelligence to idolatry!? That is comical and absurd. Kirk and Ray have given up just that: their logic, reason, and intelligence to believe in a irrational fantasy and outright deny observable reality and deny contradictory evidence. A person must give up reason and logic to believe that the Bronze Age and Iron Age mythology in the Bible is absolute truth.
- It is fortunate for Ray and Kirk that no evidence exists for their god, if their god existed both would be in serious danger of hell. As shown above they have many times created in their own minds a god that suits their personal agenda.
- Kirk's analogy fails because it assumes we are all guilty. Kirk cherry-picks which Commandments he uses to fit his agenda, and they are not the actual Ten Commandments. Unfortunately, the Commandments do not prove God anymore than the 5 Pillars of Islam prove Allah. Further the analogy is bad because polishing a car does not atone for murder. Even with murder judges take into account a convicted person’s previous convictions and general character in passing sentence as judges do in other cases.
Most people would say that living a good life overall does atone for minor sins. If the god of Ray and Kirk’s fundamentalism were to exist that god would be a tyrant but fortunately there is no evidence for such a god.
- Perfect standard of righteousness of God? The Ten Commandments in Exodus 34 do not mention murder, adultery, thievery, lying, coveting, and such. Even the Commandments Way of the Master goes by say nothing of discrimination, rape, child abuse, slavery, racism, torture, and many others. The bloodthirsty tyrant of the Old Testament and of the New Testament is not perfectly righteous in any sense that we understand.
- Ray and Kirk both commit idolatry themselves constantly. During a debate with the Rational Response Squad, when asked to prove their god exists outside of time, Kirk said "Well, we believe god exists outside of time." Kirk and Ray failed to prove God existed in that debate, but right there they show that they project an image of god that is timeless or a being in a separate realm.
'To me God is ' and 'we believe god exists ' mean something very similar.
- The Commandments Way of the Master use are not really the Ten Commandments. They use the Commandments from Exodus 20, the ones God SPOKE, not wrote down. The ones that were written down are very different.
- Ray thinks, or is deluded, that humanity is in need of saving from a burning building. Not once has he proven the existence of his God or faith.
- Ray and Kirk are upsetting people and reducing their happiness based on unproved assertions and Bronze Age/Iron Age religion, they are harming people for no good reason.
- Ray believes God exists outside of time, even though there is no way to prove it. Thus, he projects his beliefs of God he is comfortable with, making him just as guilty as the theists and non-theists he accuses. Ray says that God never changes, then why does god from time to time regret or change his mind? <a href="http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=31255&forum=36&5">http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=31255&forum=36&5</a> Where in the bible does it say that anger without cause is worse than anger with cause? Ray is doing just what he a few sentences before condemned in others, he makes up a difference in the law to suit himself.
- Throughout history in many nations, different sects, cults, denominations of Christianity have existed. There are over 30,000 different denominations of Christianity, most think only they interpret the Bible correctly and know the real nature of god. Kirk and Ray preach just one of these many different ways of interpreting the Bible.
- This is Ray's Parachute Analogy, which is a reversion of the flawed argument known as Pascal's Wager. The wager can be turned round, there may be a God who rewards critical thinking and punishes uncritical belief. In that case Ray and Kirk will be in big trouble over frightening people for no good reason and for promoting blind faith.
- Those two repeat, repeat and repeat that the bible is 'true' but provide no evidence. In fact, all they provide is evidence that the Bible contradicts itself to much to be trusted.
- In Exodus 34, the only time the commandments are ever called the Ten Commandments, the second one says "Thou shalt make thee no molten gods."
- Wait, Jesus specifically said if a MAN looks at a WOMAN with lust, he has committed adultery in his heart. What is Ray doing by asking this lady if she has looked at someone with lust? Fundamentalist Christians extend that to women because it would not suit their male dominating agenda to give women more freedom than men, see <a href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Exhibitionism_and_voyeurism#Christianity.">http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Exhibitionism_and_voyeurism#Christianity.</a> Other people should not remake god to their personal agenda but Christian fundamentalists are apparently allowed to do this.
- This commandment is spoke by Elohim . This commandment can be taken monotheistic or henotheistic .
- The irony is that Kirk does precisely that which he calls idolatry. Can God be in favor of abortion? The Bible shows many times he is in favor of it. If God has a plan and knows everything, then he has planned all abortions and miscarriages. Would God favor killing others, whether by crashing planes or by other means, He often commands followers to kill others to commit genocide. <a href="http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1sam/15.html#2">http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1sam/15.html#2</a> http://irregulartimes.com/secrets1.html Devoted followers, such as Popes, have committed horrible acts.
- There is nothing reasonable about Rays alternative scenario. In his scenario, innocent people are being arrested for growing one type of intoxicating plant while people who grow tobacco plants that kill very many people escape the law as do people who ferment alcohol. This is not reasonable at all. The analogy is bad but a moral code that punishes anger that is not acted on like murder or looking at an attractive person like adultery is also unreasonable and only a tyrant would impose such rules.
- Do you want to know what Moses really did? The very first thing he did was he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it. Next he ordered the children of Levi to kill them. He ordered "slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor" About 3,000 people died that day. So is Ray Comfort suggesting to kill thousands of people, or follow the example of a murderer?
- There is no evidence that Kirk was a "devoted" atheist. In fact, the stories he tell us hints that he is just making it up to appeal to the audience. Kirk asks is it stupid to have a concept of god that you pray to, Ray says yes. But this is exactly what Ray and Kirk, and all Christian and theists do.
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