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| - Bronze Age and Iron Age mythology tells Kirk that. Incidentally if God is omniscient he must know our prayers at all times.
- Not once does Ray consider that he may be mistaken right now, nor does he seem to care. He is only worried about installing doubt and fear into others, just to make them follow his same belief system. Incidentally a perfectly merciful God must forgive all wrongs while a perfectly just God must punish all wrongs, it looks like a perfectly good God is a contradiction.
- This is no better than the Primordial Covenant in Islam. The Covenant states Allah knows everything you do and you are without excuse. The Covenant goes as follows: Basically, before you were born, your soul/spirit testified to Allah that he was your God, and thus when you die and meet him again in the afterlife during Judgment, you cannot deny that you testified to Allah and you are without excuse. It is common for religions to include a system that links all human beings as being created by a specific creator and humans are without excuse, such as "thetans" in Scientology.
- Please take note of the "IF" Hell is x,y,z... What has not been established if Hell even exists. So far, it is based on a list of presuppositions: 1) that Ray's narrow version of God exists, 2) this God punishes people, 3) that God create a special place for punishment and 4) based on the previous presuppositions, faith demands that this place must be real. This argument is no better than a person saying that if you travel to Nevada or anywhere near Area 51, you will be abducted by fat one-eyed purple aliens with yellow hands, so should we be warning tourists who cross at the state lines into Nevada? No. Why don't we? Because there is no proof that purple aliens even exist or have so much as abducted a grasshopper.
- If Hell was a real place, it depends who you ask. For many who see the real monstrous nature of God may gladly go to Hell rather than spend an eternity with a tyrant. And in any case a tyrant cannot be trusted to keep promises to save the righteous or to save believers.
- That day will only come in Ray and Kirk's imagination. This further shows Ray and Kirk's ethical bankruptcy. The punishment they seek unto others is an immoral punishment; an infinite punishment for a finite crime. Ray and Kirk's moral absolutes are flawed and unstable. The punishment should fit the crime.
- Basically, this entire episode is focused around Pascal's Wager, but lets examine the flaws in Ray's argument. One very important flaw is assuming that any god rewards and punishes as Ray imagines. There may just as well be a god who rewards critical thinking and punishes blind faith. In that case Ray and Kirk could be in big trouble because they spent a lifetime encouraging blind faith as well as upsetting people for the wrong reason.
Ray says to the position that there is no Hell is the greatest gamble. Next, it depends on what version of Christianity you adopt. There are over 30,000 different denominations that each claim to have the correct interpretation of Scripture. So already, Christians like Ray Comfort, have a 1/30,000 chance of being wrong. Also, another person could say to say there is no Valhala is the greatest gamble. Another person could say there is a Hell, but only non-Muslims go there. And it can go on and on. There are literally hundreds of billions number of realms that exist in the after life. Picking out Hell as the greatest gamble of them all is ludicrous. Basically, the chances of there being a hell is really minuscule. Actually, since there are an infinity of realms that could theoretically exist that means the chances of Hell being real is near absolute zero. Finally, if there was a hell, Ray is wrong about losing the thing most important to you. There is absolutely no evidence for the soul. So basically, you have nothing to lose and nothing to look forward to.
- I'll tell you. Betting on Jesus wouldn't work because an omniscient god would be able to see the hypocrisy of people who try and force belief to avoid hell but deep down know there is no evidence for god. Kirk Caneron has demonstrated that.
- The conscience? Really? How about some real evidence. How about a rock taken from the furnace? A photograph? Anything feasible or provable? Nobody will ever provide any evidence such as this. Why? Because Hell's foundation is based on faith - that's it. So basically, there is no evidence for Hell. All Ray and Kirk can do is play with human emotions in an attempt to forge an illusion that there is a connection.
- Except for herpes, those tend to follow you around.
- At least we know that Ray knows what that means, which means he knows his analogies are purposely devious. "If I were to give you x or y, which would you choose...nobody in their right mind." This means he sets up a choice that is painstakingly obvious, but the problem is that it is way off from what is being discussed at hand: it is not painstakingly obvious that an afterlife, God, Heaven, Hell, soul, etc. exists. Finally, as for Ray maintaining no sane person would is not accurate. Humans are unpredictable, and a person may have a set of standards or philosophy and live a life of poverty or simplicity .
- Two convincing evidences of Hell's existence? Intriguing, but not very promising considering this is coming from WOTM . Funny, how Kirk asks us to "keep an open heart" and not an open mind. Why? Because he wants our emotions to take over our ability to reason and let fear take control over our judgment. He basically wants us to shut off our intelligence and rationality, and let emotions and superstition guide us. Kirk and Ray wish to use reason as evidence? This is no evidence at all, anyone can use reason to attempt to prove any fantasy land exists in the afterlife, it just depends on the limits of your imagination. Reason would also tell us an omni-benevolent God would never create such a place as Hell, but reason can also tell us that the concept of God cannot logically exist.
- I will gamble and say that the man was going for the prize and took the gun to his head. Perhaps did it and survived, or when he picked up the gun WOTM refused to give him the bullet . In the end I bet, WOTM refused to cough up the dough and it's probably stage money because they would guard real money more carefully.
- Who in their right mind would want eternal life? An eternal life is not bliss or a blessing, but a punishment. A finite life is a meaningful life. Doesn't rarity increase value? Of course it does. So what Kirk and Ray are offering is not a gift. Only the simple or uncritical mind would fall for such a desire.
- Obviously, this is all starting with a presupposition that there is a God, and it is Ray's narrow version of God. To another person, God could be evil, and the Bible sure portrays God as a tyrannical monster.
- God is said to be good and will punish murderers, rapists, thieves, and liars.
*Isaiah 45:5-7 –God describes himself being as much evil as he much good; and that he created evil –not as the absence of good, but proud of that creation. <a href="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/is/45.html#7
*Murderers:">http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/is/45.html#7
*Murderers:</a> Exodus 2:12 –Moses was a murderer which in the Comfort system is not excused by provocation. <a href="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/2.html#12">http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/2.html#12</a> He was also guilty of theft, arson, and genocide .
*Rapists: Deuteronomy 22:28 –Rapists get to marry a virgin they violate, and those victims must submit to his lusts forever. <a href="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/dt/22.html#28">http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/dt/22.html#28</a> Otherwise, rape isn’t even considered a crime unless the girl belongs to another man. 1st Kings 11:3 –Solomon had 700 wives and princesses and 300 extra-martial concubines “and his wives turned his heart away.” Numbers 31:17-18 –Moses ordered whole families to be slaughtered including little boys, -but not pre-teen girls . Those he awarded to his soldiers to ‘keep for themselves.’…except for concubines and as-yet unmolested girls orphaned and enslaved prisoners of war. They are in trouble. Any evil thing we do can be forgiven, even offering your own innocent children to violate mobs to be brutally gang-raped rather than let strangers suffer such indignity. But never EVER challenge the accuracy or authority of the priests and the dogma they’re selling. That’s the only thing their “god” will never forgive. Now why do you think that is?
*Punish thieves and liars: not according to the extravagant revenue of faith-healing or pseudoscience ministries & the fraudulent charlatans behind them, like Ray Comfort.
- The Comfortable guide to Satanism quotes St Paul as saying he wouldn’t know what sin was without the law. Do we have an innate understanding of right and wrong or don’t we? Ray and Kirk can’t have it both ways.
Scenarios like this do not matter. If we were to scientifically examine where our morals come from, we would actually discover that it is an evolutionary trait. Unfortunately, several people can be born without a sense of right and wrong. Incidentally in the case imagined where someone grew up totally isolated with no moral instructions a judge in a civilised country would most likely say he isn't responsible for his actions. The case couldn't be dismissed as the violent man is clearly a public danger but he would be locked up in an institution rather than punished in a prison.
In Ray Comfort's book You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, But You Can't Make Him Think, in chapter 8, section 6, Ray says that a judge who dismisses a criminal's charges is merciful. Ray firmly believes that God is a merciful God, but apparently only merciful to Christians.
- There is nothing immoral with lying, not even the 10 Commandments say anything about lying. As already explained, the Commandment "Thou shall not bear false witness to thy neighbor" does not forbid lying altogether. It only deals with misrepresentation of another in court. Lying is very broad, and even several biblical characters were liars and were never punished. Therefore, lying is not wrong . Lying can be harmful just as it can be beneficial . Stealing is not entirely immoral either. Isn't Robin Hood considered a folk hero? You know him; the outlaw who stole food and money and gave it to the poor and needy. Even though it was for a good cause, but due to Ray and Kirk's moral absolutes this does not matter since stealing is stealing, and thus Robin Hood should burn for eternity for feeding starving villagers. As for murder, several biblical characters are indeed guilty of murder, but are never punished by God. Ray Comfort believes killing anybody for any reason is murder . So basically, if you accidentally get in a car accident on a rainy day and someone dies, you are guilty of murder. However, society recognizes the fallacy of such moral views. In today's court systems, we have different names and punishments for various homicides and killings . What the Bible says it has given us is irrelevant unless empirical proof can be provided, otherwise it is no better than claiming the Quran or the Vedas tell us their particular god gave us a conscience. This is all about guilt tripping us but proves nothing about whether God exists or not
- There will be no Day of Judgment, nor will there be a soul to lose. Incidentally if you feel like reading the Bible The Skeptics Annotated Bible is a good place to access it.
- This guy is the smartest man interviewed on the show yet.
- As much as Ray will deny it: HUMANS ARE ANIMALS. That is a fact. We are mammals, vertebrates, and such which has been known for centuries. Ray says apes do not care about right or wrong and justice and truth...well apparently apes do, because WE ARE APES. Also, we are not the only species with a sense of right and wrong, justice and truth. Studies have shown that monkeys and apes have a basic sense of right and wrong. There is no big mystery to morality. Morality is simply acting with the intention to minimize harm. Since harm is natural, its avoidance is a material exercise. Organisms suffer as they bump into their environment and each other, and as rational animals with some ability to anticipate the future, we humans have some choice about how this happens. If we try to minimize harm and enhance the quality of life, we are moral, see humanist morality. If we don’t, we are immoral or amoral, depending on our intentions. Even if we make a mistake, we can still be called moral or ethical if it is truly out intention to minimize harm. And the way to avoid making a mistake is to try to be as informed as possible about the likely consequences of the actions being considered. To be moral, atheists have access to the simple tools of reason and kindness. There is no cosmic code book directing our actions as Christians believe. Evolution can also answer where morality comes from. Since humans are social animals and they benefit from interactions with others, natural selection should favor behavior that allows us to better get along with others. Fairness and cooperation have value for dealing with people repeatedly . The emotions involved with such justice could have evolved when humans lived in small groups . Optional participation can foil even anonymous exploitation and make cooperation advantageous in large groups . Kin selection can explain some altruistic behavior toward close relatives; because they share many of the same genes, helping them benefits the giver's genes, too. In societies, altruism benefits the giver because when others see someone acting altruistically, they are more likely to give to that person . In the long term, the generous person benefits from an improved reputation . Altruistic punishment allows cooperation to flourish even in groups of unrelated strangers.
- Do we? Does Kirk know that? Has he met every single human that ever existed on this planet and checked?
- It does not mean 100,000 murders got off Scot free. Ever heard of serial murderers? In addition, according to Kirk's theology, every single one of these murderers is living it up in heaven providing they 'repented' in the final seconds of their lives. How can this possibly by considered to be divine justice?
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