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| - After many reviews of Way of the Master programs and debates, what Ray and Kirk like to say is in the Bible is rarely accurate. Ray and Kirk believe that salvation is by faith and grace alone, while ignoring dozens of Bible verses saying salvation is made though works such as baptism, circumcision, and such. There are other Christian views that Ray and Kirk do not agree with, such as the Calvinist worldview of predeterminism. If God is omniscient, then he already knows where you will end up in the afterlife ages before your parents even met each other for the first time.
- Reading the Bible could be useful. The people would not just have to listen to what their pastors cherry-pick to tell them on Sundays, and many people will see the immoral stories and the evidently fiction stories and conclude that religion is nonsense.
Nothing fails like prayer. Prayer is not a lifeline to anything, and there are no gods talking back to us. That void is filled in by people. People with their own biases, corruptions, limitations and agendas. Prayer could provide comfort, but such feelings are no better than that of placebo effects.
- Our flesh will never be separated from the world, since we are all connected and linked.
As for 2 Timothy are considered by a vast majority of critical scholars to be pseudonymous -that is they are not written by Paul . As we all know, forgers have a conscious goal to deceive.
- The fundamental differences in this story and what Christianity actually teaches is the father is immortal, all-powerful, and is the creator of this whole mess . In this case, the father cannot die no matter what and he purposely put those crocodiles in the water. Nor did the son have the option to choose not to go on the boat and remain on the dock. The father knew everything beforehand, he put a boat next to the dock, and created his son to have such desires and knowing full well his son will exercise those desires. His father basically put the boy in the middle of the lake to be croc food. The father has the power to save his son by making the crocodiles go away forever, but chooses not to. Instead, he decides to have his son watch as he makes the crocodiles he made eat him, but the son knows he is not dead and cannot die. This stunt his father performs is as common and painless as taking a stroll through an open grass field with the wind blowing through your hair, and his father can repeat it many times over as many times as he wishes.
- How is the world an enemy of Christianity? Is Ray admitting that he desires a global war? As for the flesh, Christianity purposely made all the sins of man natural feelings, instincts, and behaviors; making it impossible to escape sin. Just by being born, Christianity claims that you are wicked and are the cause of suffering. The devil is an enemy of Christianity. Acknowledging the devil is a fictional mythological character, should the people fear him? Think of all the men, women, children, and animals who have died because it was "God's will." Certainly a person grieving the untimely loss of a loved one would much rather have their loved one with them than in God's hands. When Christians like Ray or other clergy men say "It was God's will" or "He is in God's hands now, my son" such phrases have been a convenient way for theists to condone or excuse the mercilessness of God.
- At least Ray admits that some excuses are permissible. Finding exceptions for anything is difficult for Ray to accept.
- Only in the Bible, a book written by men, says that such a event happened. There is no evidence of such a thing happened, in fact it is more likely that this is simply a myth or fiction.
- This is not entirely accurate. When you join the army, you are not separated entirely. You can still communicate with the outer world through computer and letters. The church does not train people, just look at Jesus Camp and Teen Mania. In Teen Mania, you have teens being dressed like soldiers in camo; leadership structure of sergeant, lt., general, commander, etc; the interns answer with "Sir, yes sir!"; the interns ring a bell to quit, Navy Seals style; they perform military exercises; eat cat food ; sleep deprivation; crawling through the mud; rolling down a hill until you vomit - all done in the name of Jesus.
- There is no sacrifice and we are not returning to a concept called "sin" because it was never there to begin with.
- In this episode, Ray and Kirk take a militant evangelical approach, similar to Jesus Camp and Teen Mania. Since the episode synopsis is not included, the time will not be recorded. Please bear in mind, each piece is in order.
- Ray and Kirk are not rescuing people from anything, only in their fantasy beliefs does a realm such as Hell exists, but not once has a single person ever provided proof of such a place.
- Not weapons of carnal? Look at this page, these were people who were killed for refusing to accepting Christianity by militants armed by Southern Baptist Missionaries. The Christian's choice of weapons: guns, knives, and clubs. Missionaries use tactics such as manhunts, genocide, kidnapping, force labor, forcing captives to perform pornography at gunpoint, and such. This is a battle of flesh and blood across the globe, but overall it is a battle of intellect and emotion. Kirk has proclaimed and instructed on this program to "reach people by speaking to the person's conscience, and circumnavigate the intellect" .
- What a charming thing to say. Does she wish the same fate on forces in barracks during peace? Yes, soldiers are meant to protect their country, but everyone strives for peace.
- Can you eat the page of the Bible? Sure. Can you get nutrients from it? No. So reading the Bible will not give you energy, it will only give devout Christians motivation and a drive deeper into delusion. However, reading the Bible can have other outcomes. Many many atheists have indeed read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and concluded this book cannot be the work of a god because it is typical of human mythology. And so, they reject Christianity.
- What is "the enemy"? Ray is intentionally being dishonest by calling the views and personal beliefs of non-Christians as a "god" to make the false appearance they worship and adore their sinful lives. The truth is, these people are happy people with a wide variety of beliefs or lack of beliefs. Look how liberal the churches have become. Religious leaders no longer preach that all our natural actions are sinful. Sex is no longer dirty and wanting someone else is no longer a vice. Times have changed, but if the world has changed so much, why continue to grasp the threads of a dying faith? The Bible is no longer read in Latin. If priests and ministers were to have used the devices to fill their churches on hundred years ago that they use today, they would have been charged with heresy, called devils, perhaps persecuted or excommunicated without hesitation.
Ray says he is trying to save the lost, but the reality is he wants other people to be as lost as he is: lost in a world of fantasy and nonsense. It is true that ministers have done some honorable things such as being at the front lines of peace demonstrations, but their equally dedicated brothers of the cloth from the same seminaries are the ones blessing the bullets and bombs and fighting men as chaplains in the armed forces. Someone is wrong here.
- Noting that both Kirk and Ray quoted 2 Timothy, a forgery not written by Paul, Galatians 1:8-9 says "If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." If anyone dares to disagree with Paul on religious matters, "let him be accursed." Based on this, both the forger and those who promote it are cursed. Nice job Ray and Kirk for digging yourselves deeper into a hole.
- Only in White's imagination will there be punishment after death for his narrow version of the concept of sin.
- The real mission is not saving anyone, but a wide spread control system under the influence of fear, gullibility, and irrationality.
- It is easy to find a devout Christian preacher to match your message. How about certain Christians that started revolutions, new churches, and a new huge branch of Christianity like Martin Luther.
"We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews]"
"The Jews are the most miserable people on earth. They are plagued everywhere, and scattered about all countries, having no certain resting place. They sit as on a wheelbarrow, without a country, people or government... but they are rightly served, for seeing they refused have Christ and his gospel, instead of freedom they must have servitude."
"Either God must be unjust, or you, Jews, wicked and ungodly. You have been, about fifteen hundred years, a race rejected of God."
"Therefore the blind Jews are truly stupid fools..."
[Martin Luther, "On the Jews and Their Lies", 1543]
"The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes."
[Martin Luther, Works 12.94]
- The real enemy of Kirk and Ray is truth. Yes, Ray and Kirk strongly believe their beliefs are true, but if you have constantly lie to defend your "truths" then you already know your beliefs are not true to begin with. This is why Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron work tirelessly to minimize critical thinking skills, attack and ridicule science, and promote faith based views onto everyone.
- Filled with references to warfare? Doesn't that send up a red flag. Did Jesus say "love thy neighbor" and "judge not"? He did, but the Bible is full of contradictions, he also said "Why does thou think I have come to send peace. I have not come to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." -Matthew 10:34-37. He is basically instructing his followers to put their family members to the sword! In Luke 22:36 Jesus commands his followers to buy a sword and in Matthew 12:30 he reveals his totalitarian views by saying "He that is not with me is against me."
- Never been tried to its full capacity? Jesus said if your faith was as little as a mustard seed, your prayer would have the power to move mountains. And not once has any of the most devouted genuine Christian ever performed such a feat, not even grow back amputees, cure cancer, or so much as use prayer to retie their shoelaces. If God did say such a response and made such a promise, then we would expect to see much change in the world, but we don't.
- The question is misleading. Why should someone "go somewhere" after death? Where is the proof that such a thing happens? Instead, Ray plays with the person's fears by Cherry picking the Ten Commandments to make the person feel guilty and worthy of damnation. This is a consciousless tactic, because it begins with a false perquisite that the Bible is true and Ray's concept of Hell is real. The same effect on people's minds can be achieved by using the 5 Pillars of Islam to prove Allah, or the Eightfold Path to prove Buddhism. But first, it must be established that their religion is actually true.
- Nothing fails like prayer. Prayer has no effect nor does it provide any link of communication. Studies have shown that prayer is ultimately ineffective, and prayer is further proven to be a fraud by the mere fact that many people who pray receive different answers, instructions, beliefs, ideas, and such. Example, Mormons talk to God all the time, and people like Dan and Ron Lafferty go off on a murdering quest all because God instructed them to do so. <a href="http://www.deseretnews.com/article/595079489/1984-Lafferty-case-still-haunts.html">http://www.deseretnews.com/article/595079489/1984-Lafferty-case-still-haunts.html</a> If prayer did connect to a "headquarters" why is it unreliable, so diverse, and even does not provide any useful information? Rather, prayer has been the justification for several theists who commit atrocities such as murder, and claim God willed them to kill.
- While the first person makes an interesting point about death, and we would have loved to hear his reasons, but he is accurate about Hell and the devil: they are both lies. People should not fear Hell, since it is an imaginary place and has no evidence for it anymore than Davy Jones' Locker does. In fact, the Christian Hell is a recycled concept of the Greek Tartarushttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plCGYuVU6Yw. Hypothetically, if there was such a place as Hell, then people will be reunited with their friends and some of the world's most important people. As comedian Jim Jefferies once joked <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZJ-_OTvsqo">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZJ-_OTvsqo</a> "If you have been bad you go to Hell. You've cheated, stolen, you've been a prick your entire life.... why would the devil punish you? You are one of his boys! He is going to dig you!"
- What Ray is telling you to do is put your faith in an unproven fictional realm. Since science cannot comment on the supernatural, it cannot prove or disprove Heaven, so Ray is telling people to put their faith in something that cannot be disproven. Sneaky, but science has made many breakthroughs in neuroscience and has discovered there is no reason to believe in a soul that lives on after death.
- Nice story, but it does not portray the real issue with Christianity. In this scenario, the father is like the park ranger and manager. The father purposely put the crocodiles into that lake, as well as the desire in the son to want to go on a boat. The father makes all the park rules, but even though he knows everything, he says he allows campers and hikers to enter and have free will. The father is furious that the hikers and campers continue to bring pets or sunbathe topless, even though the rule says not to. He tells the campers their penalty is to be removed to a complete wasteland. In Christianity, the father purposely sends his own child in a boat out into the lake of crocodiles. When the child is eaten, the father then forgives all the other campers for not following the Camp Rules like "No pets allowed" or "Clothing optional" and does not send them away to the wasteland. What kind of father sacrifices his own son for a bunch of campers who want to have a good time but do not follow a rule or two? Or any of the rules? How does that make sacrificing your son justifiable? Did the campers assault the father? No. Did the campers dump toxic chemicals into the water? No.
- Is this a move for sympathy? Anyone familiar with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron work would not give them sympathy in the slightest. Ray may call this a battle, but in reality it is just a campaign for the people to come to his church and follow his worldview.
- There is a reason why the world does not believe it: THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR IT. This is the obvious fact that Christians ignore, because to them they do not need evidence, just faith. If there was evidence for Heaven or Hell, theists would be marching down the streets everywhere waving it around like banners in the faces of non-believers, but the don't. Why? Because there is not a shred of evidence for an afterlife anywhere. Thus making, Kirk and Rays notions and claims about Heaven are completely baseless.
- Guilt and appeal to emotion is not a valid argument. This same argument can be used to justify the claims of multiple faiths and religions, such as Krishna and Dionysus.
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