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| - not notable; also sources provided do not deeply examine topic Curb Chain (talk) 02:26, 6 June 2012 (UTC) Keep Articles has a handful of independent sources, and the first reference by the Futon Critic gives a pretty detailed description of the episode, and I was able to find other articles with significant coverage. Considering that this article meets Wikipedia's television episode guideline, and considering that every other episode of Ugly Betty has it own article, I think we need to keep this one. NJ Wine (talk) 03:31, 6 June 2012 (UTC) (edit conflict)That is a press release from the network who makes these shows! Complete conflict of interest/WP:PRIMARY SOURCEs do not constitute notability. WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS does not mean this should, and I am being scrupulous for not nominating the
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| - not notable; also sources provided do not deeply examine topic Curb Chain (talk) 02:26, 6 June 2012 (UTC) Keep Articles has a handful of independent sources, and the first reference by the Futon Critic gives a pretty detailed description of the episode, and I was able to find other articles with significant coverage. Considering that this article meets Wikipedia's television episode guideline, and considering that every other episode of Ugly Betty has it own article, I think we need to keep this one. NJ Wine (talk) 03:31, 6 June 2012 (UTC) (edit conflict)That is a press release from the network who makes these shows! Complete conflict of interest/WP:PRIMARY SOURCEs do not constitute notability. WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS does not mean this should, and I am being scrupulous for not nominating the other articles! And WP:SUPPORT does not work in deletion discussions.Curb Chain (talk) 03:44, 6 June 2012 (UTC) Articles such as [1] does not indicate notability outside of the show, so you can bombard the article (and other articles in this series, season, or wholly other series for this matter) with these sources but this won't indicate notability. And as listed by WP:TVEP, individual episodes are notable if they are exceptional compared to others ("...outstanding..." in its terms).Curb Chain (talk) 03:56, 6 June 2012 (UTC) WP:TVEP gives editors broad discretion about whether only seasons of a show should have articles, or whether each episode should have an article. For example, WP:TVEP cites The Simpsons (season 8) as a good TV article, and when you read that article, every episode of the Simpsons for that season gets its own article. Episodes do not need to be exceptional to have an article. NJ Wine (talk) 04:58, 6 June 2012 (UTC) Maybe each episode in that season of Simpsons is notable, per indepth discussion from 3rd party sources, but that argument does mean that WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS holds weight. Note your mention of the "broad" discretion of WP:TVEP which is essentially useless for determining notability.Curb Chain (talk) 06:31, 6 June 2012 (UTC) Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 13:32, 6 June 2012 (UTC) Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:04, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
* Comment Could this be merged to article on the season? Standards of notability for TV episodes are a mess (or at least, enforced very poorly), as the above discussion indicates. --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:11, 13 June 2012 (UTC) I agree that Wikipedia's television episode guidelines are very ambiguous, and there is no consistant practice. Some major TV shows have articles for every episode, whereas only have one article per season. Bad Amanda has a few indepedent sources discussing it, and if it were a stand-alone one-time show, its notability would be borderline. However, I think we need to look at this in the context of the Ugly Betty TV series. The show has 85 episodes, and all 85 have articles about them -- see List of Ugly Betty episodes. I think it would be bizarre for 84 episodes of a TV show to get their own Wikipedia article, and 1 not to have its own article. NJ Wine (talk) 22:19, 20 June 2012 (UTC) The same thing happened with Grey's Anatomy. I nominated almost all of the episodes for deletion and almost all of them were redirected. Per WP:N if an article is not notable it should be deleted. Some episodes get an article, but this doesn't mean this doesn't violate WP:NOT, it just means that noone has deleted them yet.Curb Chain (talk) 23:37, 20 June 2012 (UTC) Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger One ping only 00:12, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
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