| abstract
| - I think an addition to the lore policy on how to deal with WoW events would be helpful. Currently there are several approaches, including: 1.
* The Nefarian approach: describe the background lore revealed in WoW but do not include any player-driven events like Nefarian's death. 2.
* The Aliden Perenolde approach: integrate player-driven events into the storyline, describing the actions taken by the player in terms of "an agent of the Horde", etc. 3.
* The Eranikus approach: describe the actions taken by the player in explicit terms, e.g. "The player and his or her raid party are required to defend Keeper Remulos from Eranikus." Approach (1) simply leaves out too much information in my opinion. We do want to capture not only the background lore revealed in the game, but the significant events which take place in it. Approach (2) is, to my mind, somewhat confusing and a little presumptive. Confusing, in the sense that unless the reader knows that "agent of the Horde" is code for "a Horde player character", the article simply seems vague and unclear. Presumptive, in the sense that I don't think we can presume as to exactly how events in WoW will be integrated into the lore in future games. If we look at Warcraft I and II, there were similar contradictory potential storylines, and the next game described a history which didn't always match one or the other. Approach (3) is my personal favourite, as it conveys exactly what we know and nothing more, and makes it clear to the reader the source of the information being described. It makes no assumptions as to how questline lore will or should be treated by future developments in the series. It also avoids conflicts between Horde and Alliance versions of quests, or between different quests where the same character dies, such as the Corrupted Ashbringer Scarlet Monastery event, and the Horde and Alliance quests there. Any thoughts?--Aeleas 14:09, 17 September 2006 (EDT) I agree. Approach (3) seems to be the most reasonable one. Concerning approach (2) it must also be considered that not every reader of WoWWiki has done all of the quests. So, if someone reads the article about Aliden Perenolde saying that he was killed by an "agent of the Horde" and then suddenly finds the NPC in the online game, he will probably be like "Wha..?! WoWWiki said he was dead. Guess the article was wrong." It is far to unclear that something like "was killed by an agent of the Horde" really means "there is a Horde quest in the game where you have to kill him". Why not just say it like it is? --Foogray 13:16, 25 October 2006 (EDT) The Corrupted Ashbringer example brings up a good question: is Renault Mograine (a.k.a Scarlet Commander) canonically dead? There are quests for each faction to kill him, but as discussed before this certainly does not constitute canon. However, by triggering the Cathedral event with Corrupted Ashbringer, Highlord Mograine kills Renault. The player indirectly causes Renault to die. Is this canon? I would have to argue yes; the direct actions of NPCs against other NPC's should be considered canonical. However, this would mean that Onyxia, Ragnaros, Nefarian, etc. are not canonically dead because players kill them without the assistance of other NPCs. Rend Blackhand would however be considered dead because the player can summon Vaelastrasz using Seal of Ascension to assist in killing him. I read an official article on the WoW site a few months back summarizing all events that have taken place right up until the release of the expansion. I'm having difficulty locating it, but it clearly stated that C'Thun, Nefarian, etc. were outright dead. -- 04:06, 18 April 2007 (EDT) Just because a player kills a boss themselves doesn't mean they won't be canonically dead- we're not going to know until Blizzard publishes any post-WoW material. It's possible that Blizzard will say something like "Nefarian, son of Deathwing, slain by Alliance and Horde agents" or somesuch. This is why all major bosses are listed as "killable" in infobox status. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:10, 18 April 2007 (EDT) Just a clarification, there are no quests with Corrupted Ashbringer. It's merely an event. I think this (and similar events) should require different treatment than quests because it's not player-driven in the same fashion that quests are. -- 23:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC) In Patch 2.1.0, Sinestra describes Nefarian as "fallen." I think it's safe to say that he's canonically dead, and was killed by players. As far as I know, this is the first time that players have been acknowledged to have an effect on canon. -- 21:25, 7 June 2007 (UTC) Actually, fallen doesn't necessarily mean he died, but that he has been defeated and lost his position of power. It can also mean the character assumes the person has died (perhaps Nef has gone missing, and she heard about him being attacked, and assumed she has died). Also it doedsn't mean that "players" killed him, or defeated him. The story of who actually defeated him hasn't been told. In anycase until a published source specifically mentions his outcome, we can only speculate on the outcome, we can't write it down in stone. Even if a source mentions he has died, that doesn't necessarily mean he is actually dead. Its not the first time characters were assumed dead, only to be resurrected in future sources (maiev, magtheridon, etc). Additionally, TBC is not on a specific and linear timeline. Some of the quests and ingame events that can be witnessed may be what will happen, but haven't happened yet in the published history. There are way too many factors, in knowing what has and hasn't occured yet. Also we avoid terms like "canon", thank you. Baggins 21:43, 7 June 2007 (UTC) Can we decide on this? I favor what Aeleas called Aliden Perenolde approach, from the angle that lore articles should be written from an in-universe perspective. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:23, 7 June 2007 (UTC) I'm for 3. Eranikus. We should definitely include events that happen during quests. Using the Aliden Perenolde approach leaves ambiguity whether articles are referring to player-driven events or simply lore. Let me also clarify what I consider within the scope of "canon." Things considered canon should be game manuals, authorized novels, material posted on the official website, and story information mentioned by NPC's that is NOT revealed as part of a quest. IMO, events that occur as part of a quest fall within the category of lore (for lack of a better term, I suppose you could call them "quest stories" :P), but not canon. An exception to this could be where two unrelated quests reveal the same information or arrive at the same conclusions. -- 00:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
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