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| - What does showing a protest like this have anything to do with dead legends and religion? Perhaps Ray and Kirk think that marijuana brings suffering, or maybe they think it ends certain sufferings. It surely would decrease suffering: we would have less people in prison and the loss of thousands of lives during the fighting of the Drug War would cease.
- Set ups and theatrics will not make your arguments any more valid.
- It does NOT IN THE LEAST make any sense whatsoever. According to Ray and Kirk, death, disease, decay and such did not exist until man came along .
It is absolutely ridiculous to claim that death could not exist at one point in the world. For example, if God created sharks, and the sharks had offspring, then death was a part of the world at the start. Shark babies eat their younger siblings while still in their mother's womb , so it is completely unavoidable to avoid death. Certain animals have particular diets that rely on killing other animals - which is the definition of being an animal. Even humans eat meat, and in the Book of Genesis humans were allowed to eat from the trees. All vegetables have cells and are thus living beings, so whenever we eat them we engage in an act of killing another thing. Death had to exist from the start, way before Ray and Kirk think sin came into the world.
Decay also has been a part of the world, eons before man ever arrived on the scene. Atoms and molecules decay constantly, and they need to for life to exist in the first place. At the cellular level, organisms have to break down molecules to thrive. Fungi cannot live without decaying certain molecules.
If God's original creation did not include disease, then why create humans and all the other animals with an immune system? The purpose of an immune system is to defend our bodies from external fatal sources. Our immune systems would be completely pointless if there were no disease. What would be the point? Perhaps God, being all knowing, already knew that disease would eventually enter the world when he would eventually get around to making the first human. The immune system seems to stands as a testimony that God knew suffering would come, and he allowed .
Ray and Kirk are both strong proponents of intelligent design. According to ID, some biological systems are irreducibly complex .
Michael Behe, the originator of the irreducibly complex argument, argues that the immune system is irreducibly complex. Based on this, if humans were created as Ray and Kirk believe, they must have been made with an immune system from the start. Arguing that humans must have developed an immune system after the Fall is futile, since we already addressed that ID argues that the immune system could not have evolved in the human body.
However, scientists have already proven that the immune system can and did evolve naturally. This means Ray and Kirk are wrong about intelligent design and irreducible complexity, but they are also wrong that there was no disease on earth before humans came into the picture. All animals have immune systems , which would be pointless to create if there was never disease to begin with. This all sums up to a big dilemma for those like Ray and Kirk who have faith in biblical creationism;
*either there was disease on Earth – even before man came into the picture.
*or God already knew that sin and disease would eventually enter the world before he created man.
If a believer chooses the first option, then they admit that God's original creation was not “good” as Genesis says, making God an imperfect being. If they choose the second option, which is the equivalence of God knowing that a house was soaked in gasoline , then he brought along a lit match and knew the match would start an inferno that would spread and ruin his “good” house.
- Again, this is basing everything on the assumption that Ray and Kirk's narrow version of God exists. Ray and Kirk believe they have proven their God, or at least think he is self-evident, but not once have they actually provided any solid evidence. They have failed to prove their God in all debates and they remain closed to certain facts and evidence .
- Ray's argument Creation requires a creator has already been refuted a thousand times, and he knows it. For one, he is basing it all on the assumption that we live in a creation, without even providing any reason or evidence that it is a creation. His argument falls on its face when it comes to matter and energy, since the law of thermodynamics states that they cannot be created. Can't be created, therefore it had no "creator."
As it stands, the only answer is there is no God. Feel free to further explore this site to see why. In regards to the second point, why did Ray have no comment for this one? Perhaps he has no counter-argument, or thought it was not worth the trouble. However, it is worth the trouble, and it refutes an omni-benevolent God. If God is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving, then evil and suffering should not exist. And yet they do.
- Take that last piece and replace it with this: "So when the Bhagitavida says that Krishna has abolished death and brought life and immortality to mankind, if there is a one chance in a million it is true, you owe it to your good sense just to listen." This is practically identical to Ray's statement , and therefore if there is a one in a million chances Krishna and Hinduism is true, then Ray should at least give it a chance. Right?
Right?
"NO, NO AND A THOUSAND TIMES NO!!!" shouts Ray Comfort!
Ray has made it clear he is unable and unwilling to give the slightest bit of attention to any other religious views. It does not matter how great Krishna is, even when Krishna performed even greater miracles than Jesus ever did, Ray's dogmatic beliefs prevents him from listening to it for a second. So much, then when he tried to look at the top four religions of the world - this included Hinduism - from a neutral point of view, he said "Hinduism does not help a person against sin and the reality of Hell." His presumption that the Bible is true has blinded and made him deaf to ALL other alternatives and possibilities.
So if Ray is unable to follow his own advice, why should anyone else? Why should we listen to anything Ray says? Most atheists are willing to listen, but when theists fail to provide any evidence, they are completely reasonable to decline the proposed religious views and move on.
- "Think seriously about it for a moment" <--- That will be a first for Ray Comfort.
Why do people look to the sky? Curiosity. Boredom. Trying to count the stars. Who knows. Looking at the stars has drive men to develop the field of astronomy, but death does not seem to be in the picture. Here is poor example, but it is no more poor than Ray's argument: Wolves look to the sky, trying to find the moon, but you do not see wolves forming religions out of fear of death.
Ray and Kirk talk as if death is a figure. They call death "He." Maybe in Ray and Kirk's mind, death is a person - perhaps an angel or the Grim Reaper. Unfortunately for them, death has no figure, nor does death "stomp" on people.
It is true that many become believers when a loved one or a friend dies, but the opposite also happens; when a loved one or friend dies, they suddenly realize a god does not exist.
- Any source for this? While this may be an insignificant piece, but with Ray and Kirk's track record of not doing research and straight up lying, it is likely they make up stories such as this.
Incidentally this shows the way for Fundamentalist Christian women the most important things to learn are how to sew, how to cook, how to clean, how to look after children and how to die. Atheists and liberal Christians allow women a wider range of interests.
- This is only Kirk and Ray's opinions and personal beliefs . There is nothing firm in Christianity, and the words of the Bible are clearly and unmistakeably that of men, not of some divine being.
- And lets think about things like HPV. HPV is now the most common sexually transmitted disease in the United States. The virus infects over half the American population and causes nearly five thousand women to die each year from cervical cancer; the Centers for Disease Control estimates that more the two hundred thousand die worldwide. We now have a vaccine for HPV that appears to be both safe and effective. The vaccine produced 100 percent immunity in the six thousand women who received it as part of a clinical trial. And yet, Christian conservatives in our government have resisted a vaccination program on the grounds that HPV is a valuable impediment to premarital sex. These pious men and women want to preserve cervical cancer as an incentive toward abstinence, even if it sacrifices the lives of thousands of women each year. This is insanity in its purest form. Incidentally not all of these thousands of women have had the wrong type of sex, some are colateral damage because their husbands did something with someone else before or after they married.
Do I have to bring up Africa and the Christian crusade against condoms? Do I have to bring up the Christian missionaries in India kidnapping and sodomizing Indian children? For that matter, do I have to bring up the numerous reports of priest pedophilia on the children?
- Typical Christian response to answer a question with another question. How about you provide a straight answer. During the Nightline debate with the rational Response Squad, Ray was asked by a lady to explain cancer. Ray sidetracked multiple times, infuriating the lady and the entire audience. They shouted and pointed out to Ray at least three times to provide a straight answer, but he couldn't. Why not? Because they have no answer, and resort to avoiding giving answers by directing the audience to another question.
Kirk's question barely scratched on is it possible to teach someone to die. He could have pointed to any culture that taught its youth that death on the battlefield in service to his country was the greatest glory he could achieve in his life.
History shows us that religion is heavily used by leaders to keep his people under his thumb, such as Popes who ordered his people to go on a Crusade, or even Hitler who used Christianity to motivate his men to exterminate the Jews.
- Recently, when New Orleans was devastated by Hurricane Katrina, Christians pointed the finger at abortion providers and homosexuals. When a tsunami hit Indonesia, Christians said it was because God was angry with them. Examples like these are numerous. Basically, the core of it all is that God both allows these disasters to happen and he deliberately takes action to see to it that these disasters hit certain targets because some humans offended his ego. This makes God an enabler and a monster. Bottom line, God is evil.
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