| rdfs:comment
| - __NOWYSIWYG__ After re-watching the episode "the metal clan," i got the impression that the term "metal clan" refers to the city of Zaofu, not Su's family, as the linked page suggests. In short, I propose we don't use that name for her family, since it refers to the city. (just like the term "water tribe" refers to the nation, not a specific family.) Points to think about: So now that we know the metal clan refers to more than just su's family, how shall we name that page? perhaps we should just add it to the beifong family page. Intelligence4 (wall • contribs) 05:40, July 26, 2014 (UTC)
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| - __NOWYSIWYG__ After re-watching the episode "the metal clan," i got the impression that the term "metal clan" refers to the city of Zaofu, not Su's family, as the linked page suggests. In short, I propose we don't use that name for her family, since it refers to the city. (just like the term "water tribe" refers to the nation, not a specific family.) Points to think about: 1.
* Would it be incorrect to say that other people living in Zaofu are part of the metal clan, or that they live in the metal clan? 2.
* While we do have pages for important families (really just families that have been given a last name, like the Satos), I think in this case, just having the usual family tree at the bottom of each member's page is good enough. 3.
* What would go on Su's family's page that isn't already on the individual members' pages? 4.
* Aiwei said that Su is the matriarch of the MC, referring to the city she made. 5.
* I don't think they'd refer to one family as a "clan". Intelligence4 (wall • contribs) 03:39, July 22, 2014 (UTC) As I responded here, I got the impression that the clan referred to her family and not to the whole city's population. The use of "clan" and the use of "tribe" are not interchangeable and differ as terms in social anthropology. Clan can be used as both a literal kinship group based on descent or a general social group based on perception. Tribe can only be used for the latter. Clan is most often associated with descent based on common ancestry while tribe is most often defined by political integration and the sharing of values. The use of tribe in the franchise has followed that definition very well, as every chiefdom shared a common culture and ideology. This is the first use of clan as a grouping term and I don't think its use should be synonymous to the use of the tribe. 1.
* It would be incorrect saying everyone in Zaofu is part of the Metal Clan and even more incorrect to say they live in the Metal Clan. You cannot live in a clan, you can be part of it as it as a kinship group and in this case, that grouping is more associated with the family as opposed to the citizens. 2.
* Why shouldn't Su's family have their own page? Their influence and contributions to society are arguably more compared to others we know, namely the Beifongs and the Satos. They've revolutionized a bending art and applied it to numerous fields, I don't see why highlighting their importance as a group is unnecessary and should be limited to a family tree. 3.
* What would go on Team Avatar's page that is otherwise not on the pages of the individual members? Or the Beifong family page? Collecting the information on a central page, especially considering that the influence of their contributions as a whole bears more importance than just looking at their successes individually, is not an unfounded choice. 4.
* That is not the only conclusion that can be made from that statement. Matriarch simply refers to a powerful female figure who is often the head of a family. Couple that with the kinship definition of a clan and you have a matriclan with Su as the head. 5.
* Clan by most definitions refers to "a group of people interrelated by ancestry or marriage", which applies to a family and less to a whole city in which the citizens as a unit have very little commonality. File:Waterbending emblem.png Water Spout 04:55, July 22, 2014 (UTC) I still get the impression that they call the city "the metal clan" to mirror the names of the four nations. Intelligence4 (wall • contribs) 03:53, July 25, 2014 (UTC) That does not make any sense at all. There has never been any canon presented to support that. Su has always either been referred to as the matriarch of the Metal Clan or the leader of Zaofu, never the leader of the Metal Clan or the matriarch of Zaofu, which would be the case if the clan did in fact refer to the entire city. File:Waterbending emblem.png Water Spout 04:17, July 25, 2014 (UTC) she is indeed the matriarch of the metal clan... she founded the city herself. also, if just her family was called the metal clan, korra and co. wouldn't have been unaware of her. they knew zaofu was the home of the metal clan, but were all unaware of su's identity, and that of her family. Intelligence4 (wall • contribs) 06:27, July 25, 2014 (UTC) That makes her the founder of Zaofu, not the matriarch. That term refers specifically the female individual who leads a tribe, family, or other social grouping. By clarifying that, I'm not denying that Zaofu is a social grouping but I am acknowledging the fact that there is no canon evidence that states that they function like a tribe to have a matriarch. They have a leader. That is an entirely different concept. What does Team Avatar knowing or not knowing Su's family have to do with anything? What difference would it have made otherwise? You can be aware of a notable family in existence but not about the specific members. Half the population knows of the Royal Family in England but can barely name more than two people in it. And likewise in Avatarverse, a lot of people in Gaoling knew about the Beifong family but never about Toph, since she was extremely sheltered. The same can be said about Azula outside the Fire Nation, who at one point wasn't even recognized in her own nation despite her family's importance. File:Waterbending emblem.png Water Spout 18:36, July 25, 2014 (UTC) "I'm not denying that Zaofu is a social grouping but I am acknowledging the fact that there is no canon evidence that states that they function like a tribe to have a matriarch". There we go, in light of "The Terror Within", there is now evidence to support that the clan refers to the social grouping of all the residents and not just the family. That's all I needed. File:Waterbending emblem.png Water Spout 01:25, July 26, 2014 (UTC) So now that we know the metal clan refers to more than just su's family, how shall we name that page? perhaps we should just add it to the beifong family page. Intelligence4 (wall • contribs) 05:40, July 26, 2014 (UTC)
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