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| - __NOWYSIWYG__ I would like to propose that we turn the family tree of the Fire Nation Royal Family into a template rather than having it posted individually on each character's page. The benefits that this will give us are:
* It will make adding additions (if such additions are required) to the tree easier, as only one page will need to be edited, rather than each individual page.
* It will reduce the number of edits in which Mai is added as Zuko's wife. These edits occur regularly, across multiple pages, despite a notice being added not to do so, and having a template will reduce the number of times this will need correcting. If the template page is still regularly vandalized, then we can add some level of protection to the page to stop such vandalism from occurring, as we would do to any other page. It is beneficial to be able to protect the one section that is consistently vandalized, rather than having to protect the whole page to do so. One of the concerns that was brought up was how the template is named, since Roku and Ta Min are not part of the Fire Nation Royal Family. I picked this title when I originally made the page - {{Family tree of the Fire Nation Royal Family<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>}} - since the main article above the tree on each page was to the Fire Nation Royal Family, and thus the most applicable name in this case, but I guess another name might be better. Your thoughts? 23:45, December 29, 2012 (UTC) I am against this. Copy pasting something of the discussion that was already taking place about this:
* I can definitely see the added bonus of reducing some edits to the tree in speculation to Zuko's wife. However, that's about the only bonus I see, as character pages are more often checked on accuracy than templates -and thus, changes made to the template tree could go more easily undetected than changes made to the character page directly (and then there are some users who maybe want to fix the error then when they come to the page, but don't know how to as they don't know how to go to the template's page. I've had many template fix requests as such already, hence me pointing it out).
* Having one page with a template breaks the overall harmony on pages when it comes to said section. As said, I do not contest that there are many of said edits. However, I do oppose moving away from the transparent way of editing the tree and the more difficult way of keeping track on who edited what in a template. It wouldn't be the first time that a wrongful edit is kept around for a long time on a template before someone notices it. And I am not really willing to give that up to serve something that can so easily be undone otherwise by anyone who notices it.
* Unconstructive edits are made every day and they have a very broad scope. We must not exaggerate the amount of edits made on the family tree either. Yes, they happen, but they happen just as frequent as people changing Azula's age to make her older to give an example.
* That's not how we do things around here and you know that. These are all arguments going against the entire modus operandi of our wiki just in favor of a template. So yes, I agree that there are unconstructive edits made to it, but no, I don't think that the bonus of reducing the number of said edits that don't happen that frequent anyway outweighs the cost of reducing transparency and limiting the amount of users that knows how to work the template.
* It is not beneficial when it goes against the transparency habits of this wiki. We strive to be as transparent and open as possible, also evidenced by our habit of archiving everything as opposed to outright deleting things. Creating a template that goes against that just to reduce some easily fixable edits is not considered beneficial according to the standards of openness we maintain on this wiki. The unnecessary edits are fixable withing what, a second? 2 if you have a slow driver. We should not sacrifice a core belief of this wiki just for something that shouldn't even be seen as an inconvenience due to its easiness to fix it. Sorry, I couldn't be bothered with typing that all again here in a fashionably manner, so I hope you don't mind me just copy/pasting that as I said it on the thread. 23:49, December 29, 2012 (UTC) I don't mind at all, if you don't mind me taking a while to respond (didn't really have the time to leave a proper response). The first thing I'd like to contest is your assertion that unconstructive edits to the tree don’t happen regularly. Well, in my experience, they do. Since posting this forum, I have already seen several edits of the very sort that I mentioned in my intro. They happen far more frequently across all relevant pages than edits changing Azula's age, as per the example you gave. I don't believe anything has been exaggerated. Next is protecting the page. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in that thread, but adding protection to the page (in the case where it was regularly vandalised) would only happen as it would on any other page. The benefit of using a template here is that just that section could be protected, rather than being forced to protect the whole page. If such vandalism occurred, we would have a simple solution that we do not currently have for dealing with it. Next is the issue of transparency. Again, I do not see this as a real problem. We use a template for adding episode appearances on a character's page, rather than linking to each episode individually, and whenever new information needs to added (say when the title of a new episode is revealed), it has to be added on a sub-page of that template. So using a template for the tree isn't any different to what is happening there. Unlike, say, the history section for a character, the tree doesn't regularly need expanding or improving; after any new information is added, which occurs very rarely, the tree would not need editing. We aren't limiting a user's ability to contribute when no regular edits to the page would need to be made anyway, same as we aren't limiting a user's ability to contribute through our use of the Appear template. I agree that the edits can be quickly fixed; but when it becomes a regular, persistent issue that occurs despite our bests efforts, it is beneficial to implement a simple solution that will help fix this. 20:39, December 31, 2012 (UTC)
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